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Web streaming + HDMI recording 2-3GHx's
  • 38 Replies sorted by
  • kavadnikavadni

    So I would also need a soundcard with 4 hdmi inputs to be able to record all 4 cameras hdmi's.

    No, you would mix your audio and feed it into one of the cameras, and allow the ATEM to keep the audio in sync.

  • kavadnikavadni

    @andrevanberio.

    For all my productions, I record:

    In camera on cards
    A live switched H.264 stream (20Mb/s) to hard disk via usb from the TVS
    And live switched to a Hyperdeck Studio in DNxHD 220Mb/s.

    Always record twice.

  • andrevanberloandrevanberlo

    @kavadni All the different terms that i seem to have been abusing (using incorrectly) make it hard for you and others to understand what i want/need. Also the info on the BMD website could sometimes be laid out more easily. But your questions and the answers you give me slowly but surely get me where i need to be.

    So...

    • The ATEM TVS has 6 inputs, 4 of which can be HDMI
    • You can have a max of 2 camera views on screen
    • You stream directly from the ATEM TVS to the internet with ethernet connection
    • You can record an H264 stream to Harddisk and another (uncompressed?) to SSD
    • I could mix audio in my RME fireface 800 and route it to one of the cams and use that cams audio for the production and the audio would be in sync.

    the BMD website says the ATEM TVS has 3 seperate layers which i guess means that i can have 3 different views between which i can switch? so lets say 1 view containing the splitscreen, and 2 different wide shots.

    I found a thread on CreativeCow.net where Craig Seeman replied to a somewhat similar question:

    "Personally I'd consider Blackmagic Quad (cross platform) or Matrox Multi (MacPro) with Telestream Wirecast. It'll see all four HD inputs simultaneously for Picture in Picture if you want. Make sure you have a higher end computer for that. I'd think 8 or 12 core Xeon to be safe."

    "ATEM would certainly works as well but you'd still need a Video I/O box and computer to input and encode."

    "With Wirecast I've used Skype Group Video account and Wirecast's Desktop Presenter feature to bring everyone in to the live stream with their video. It's good for virtual panel discussions. You can crop each participant so they can have solo shots. If you're taking one call at a time then a standard Skype account will work. I do this for call in interviews with audience and/or guests."

  • kavadnikavadni

    @andrevanberio

    The ATEM TVS has 6 inputs, 4 of which can be HDMI

    Correct

    You can have a max of 2 camera views on screen

    Not full-views, it has wipes and dissolves, so no picture-in-picture.
    You can do a half wipe as per the programme you showed.

    You stream directly from the ATEM TVS to the internet with ethernet connection

    No, I feed the usb h.264 stream from the TVS to a windows computer and use MX-Light.

    You can record an H264 stream to Harddisk and another (uncompressed?) to SSD

    Yes

    I could mix audio in my RME fireface 800 and route it to one of the cams and use that cams audio for the production and the audio would be in sync.

    Yes

    the BMD website says the ATEM TVS has 3 seperate layers which i guess means that i can have 3 different views between which i can switch? so lets say 1 view containing the splitscreen, and 2 different wide shots.

    Hmmm ... not quite ... no.

    You can switch between 6 cameras, 2 Auxillary Still frames, colour bars and 2 selectable colours. The stills can be selected from a pool of 32 uploaded to the switcher from a file system over ethernet or via a photoshop plugin.

    The TVS has ... in terms of layers ... not the term I would use.

    1 USK (Upstream Key) .... half a layer
    1 Mix/Wipe
    2 DSK (Downstream Key)

  • andrevanberloandrevanberlo

    @kavadni thanks for your reply, now i understand what you mean with that. You have the 2 cams footage layered and by showing one of them half you see the one in the back appear right?

    I had this answer from BMD support:

    "the ATEM TVS does not support PIP, and the ATEM 1M/E does not have the Supersource (but it can do 1 PIP) as in the ATEM 2M/E"

    So the question is then would wirecast actually do PIP the way I think it would... Could i seperate the screen into 4 segments and each segment showing one of the 4 cams (using the Decklink quad).

    "You can switch between 6 cameras, 2 Auxillary Still frames, colour bars and 2 selectable colours. The stills can be selected from a pool of 32 uploaded to the switcher from a file system over ethernet or via a photoshop plugin."

    "The TVS has ... in terms of layers ... not the term I would use."

    "1 USK (Upstream Key) .... half a layer 1 Mix/Wipe 2 DSK (Downstream Key)"

    I understand now that using the TVS means i can use my 4 cams, use 2 of them to create that "splitscreen" effect that I made in the program, and use the other 2 for wide shots and just swith between those 3 different views? Would that be possible to set up?

    (hopefully i'm not driving you mad with all my questions, I am very happy with the time you give this and really appreciate it!)

  • kavadnikavadni

    @andrevanberio

    We are here to help each other, so don't stress the questions.

    The Decklink Quad is HD-SDI not HDMI ... that might be an issue.

    From your description of what you want and hints at want you might want to do, I would suggest / look for ... a card in a computer/and software that will allow you to do the wipe between the two HDMI cameras in real time ... so two hdmi inputs. Then feed that into an ATEM TVS or 1ME, and switch between the wiped-source and your other cameras, applying the graphics with the keys.

    Then record as I described ... cameras on cards, H264 via USB, and DNxHD/Prores.

    I think that approach would not leave you regretting expenditure, and allow for expansion and bigger ideas in the future.

    I understand now that using the TVS means i can use my 4 cams, use 2 of them to create that "splitscreen" effect that I made in the program, and use the other 2 for wide shots and just swith between those 3 different views? Would that be possible to set up?

    Yes, but you'll need 14 fingers and impeccable timing to get in and out of the split screen smoothly ... or set up a transitional DSK

  • kavadnikavadni

    @andrevanberio,

    On computers ... An i7 windows notebook with 8G of RAM is able to control the ATEM TVS, and record the H264 stream. I have also used it to control the TVS and stream with MX-Light ... I have never tried all threes.

    I intend to purchase that Teradek device for streaming.

    Again not a fan of the one computer does all ... everybody I know who has set up that way doesn't use the gear much, or is struggling and wishing they had or planning to get a hardware switcher.

    Waiting for more audio questions, and the talkback questions :)

  • andrevanberloandrevanberlo

    @kavadni yeah those audio questions will come up once i have the video questions covered :-)

    Actually your last posts got me thinking... (all of them but these in particular)

    To do this I could use the ATEM TVS + 2 HDMI cards (in the computer + software to create the composite output to the ATEM) , use the ATEM to switch between the composite output and the other 2 cams...

    I thought which card I would need: BMD intensity pro probably for the cards I thought which software would i need: Wirecast perhaps?

    so if i'm practically buying all that I could then also wait until I've built my Hackintosh (i know, probably a bad move), in which I will add 2 intensity pro cards(for the HDMI inputs). I could test them and wirecast and how the streaming experience is. Should streaming work well I could then also add another intensity pro card and do all switching with wirecast http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/14/wirecast-4-delivers-live-video-switching-webcast-streaming/ http://blogs.telestream.net/wirecast/2011/01/24/how-to-use-3-blackmagic-intensity-boards-with-wirecast-4/

    should the intensity pro cards+wirecast not work the way I want i could then add the ATEM TVS and proceed as you have outlined in your posts.

    The only thing that would be hard to do is to record to ssd at the same time and maybe need a H264 encoder?

    Also, the ATEM is 10bit, I don't know what the intensity pro is...

    intensitypro does these formats: 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30, 720p50, 720p59.94 and 720p60 More than enough i would think ATEM TVS does these formats: 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 720p50, 720p59.94. also more than enough

  • andrevanberloandrevanberlo

    I thought why not list a number of possibilities with amounts in € and see what happens. I'm sure there are better combo's so please correct me where needed!

    Option 1: * BMD Decklink Quad: €745 * BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle: €795 (€265 x3) or €1060 (€265 x4) * 4x mini SDI to SDI: €82 * Telestream wirecast: €387 * Total: €2009,- (excl. SSD's)

    Option 2: *BMD Intensity Pro: €450 (€150x3) or €600 (€150 x4) *Sonnet Echo Express: €520 *Telestream Wirecast: €387,- *Total: €1357,-

    Option 3: *BMD Decklink Quad: €745 *hdmi-to-sdi conv: €657 (€219 x3) or €876 (€219 x4) *Telestream Wirecast: €387,- *Total: €1789,-

    Option 4: *BMD ATEM TVS: €745,- *BMD Intensity Pro: €300,- (2x €150,-) *Telestream Wirecast: €387,- (i need software to create the split screen, but there might be cheaper option?) *
Total: €1432,-

    Option 1 is most expensive option but does have possibility to record all cams to SSD (still need to buy the SSD's). The Decklink quad does also route the hdmi signal to the SDI-out without recording activated. The Hyperdecks give flexibility in being able to record to SSD anywhere.

    Option 2 is the budget option when not using the ATEM, but here you also have to buy SSD's that have to be on the computer itself. So computer (MAC) is both streaming AND recording at the same time.

    Option 3 Is almost as expensive as option 1, without the option of recording to SSD unless you record to an SSD on your computer. So computer is both streaming AND recording at the same time AND you dont have the option to record to SSD anywhere (unless you bring your Desktop)

    Option 4 is as cheap as option 3 and if the software (telestream) can be replaced by a cheaper software just to do the splitscreen it will be by far the cheaper option. Recording to SSD would be a challenge though but the streaming bit would be handled by the ATEM so the computer has CPU left for recording if necessary...

    Anyone any thoughts on this?

  • kupchenpokupchenpo

    @kavadni What is/was your pipeline from acquisition to post and does it involve deinterlacing at some point? For example: Do you send 1080i to the TVS and record 1080i to your recorder, cut in 1080i and then output progressive? Or do you keep things interlaced all the way? Or deinterlace earlier? How do you avoid interlacing problems? Thanks!

  • kavadnikavadni

    @kupchenpo

    For any project involving post-production, where de-interlacing is required I prefer to de-interlace before entering the NLE.

  • kupchenpokupchenpo

    @kavadni Cheers mate.

  • bannedindvbannedindv

    Check this out - it's incredible:

    Get this App (for iOS - I think android coming soon) http://www.teradek.com/pages/liveair

    A powerful Router like this one: http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-RT-AC87U-Wireless-AC2400-Gigabit-Router/dp/B00MPI5N7U

    And three or four of these guys :

    http://www.teradek.com/pages/vidiumini

    and you have an extremely portable ultra light live internet TV station that fits in a backpack.

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