Official Low GOP topic, series 5

bkmcwd

@ silent users of my "settings" :-) Now, I have no time to create new settings with new PTool. So, I rearranged so that my settings could be used with new PTool3.64d immediately.

NOTE: *HBR mode can also be used satisfactorily. *24L mode is for 24p80%(30p). *Except 1080/24p, it is based on the contents of Chris's settings. Of course, you can combine with your favorite setting except 24p and 50i or 60i. *In camera playback is available.
*EX Tele works *Spanning with SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC Card, of course.

@driftwood I congratulate you on your Quantum X v1! :-) Moreover, I study.

driftwood

@eyefi Nice report. Sky banding seemed improved to me on 24p and 60p with my matrix... I'll take a good long look at HBR mode later as I am thinking of tightening up the matrix a tad more.

toxotis70

we are very interested in HBR 25p....

Stray

Banding is dramatically improved @driftwood nice one. There is a big bitrate drop off in lowlight/low detail shots in comparison to the 9b settings, but it still looks a helluva lot better than 9b did to my eyes. So colour me confused on that one but also incredibly happy, great settings, thanks. I've only tested 24H though.

driftwood

Hey @Stray good to see you back, where u been?

Stray

Quick derail.. I've been working on lots of music related projects, finishing my masters degree, and I've just started a couple of animation projects too. But I'm back hacking, shooting and editing now, Thankfully. ..back on the rails.

Zaven13

@driftwood. Just did the first test of the Quantum X using 14-140mm lense with AF on and OIS, Sandisk 30mbs card. 24H and 24L look as good as if not better than Seaquake and Q9b with half the bitrate of those patches. EX tele worked fine. Nice job. 720p60 looks very good and it works in EX tele but failed after a minute when I started panning the camera at 140mm zoom. However, 1080i60 FSH/FH and HBR look very noisy. I have had less than desirable results with 1080i60 at GOP1. BTW, 1080i60 FSH/FH failed with write errors after 20 seconds. In my humble opinion, you may need to find a different GOP for 1080i60. Cheers.

eyefi

@driftwood, thanks for looking into it. QuantumX v1.1 More tests. Camera froze on HBR 25p, with 14-140, f8, AFS on, O.I.S. on, when zooming in (maibe this is why, it refocused). Card: 32Gb 30 MB's SanDisk Extreme. Had to remove battery and restart. No file present in playback mode. it shows in computer but says 0 kb's. Using AVCCAM SD card file recovery to see if clip was recorded (about 2mins up to zoom in, when it crashed) All other files (both HBR and 24p) appeared in playback mode and in computer. Will report back when recovery is finished. and some side by side 24h and HBR 25p.

mozes

Quantum X v1 no problems ad all, have all possible settings used.
just with some presets there was more noise, but i was forgot the iso bug, me bad :(

GH2_fan

Sorry for the noob question, but I guess that Quantum X is not the same as Quantum 100??? Where can I get the latest version of that?

duartix

@driftwood :

Well, I've just noticed that with the new Quantizer tables, I lost my biggest tool to starve P/B-frames. What's there now that can help me chase that goal?

Is the GOP structure my only tool now? Can the scaling tables do anything about it?

eyefi

Continuing Report: AVCCAM SD card file recovery, wasn't able to find any file corresponding to the crashed clip, so it seems it totally failed to record any of the 2 mins up to crashing.

eyefi

Some Comparisons: HBR 25p / 24H. QuantumX v1.1 ISO 200, 5600k, shutter 50, f10, Standard -2.-2.0.-2, Manual Focus, Pan14-140, O.I.S. on. (screenshots quicktime actual size)(Media Info report respectively).

mozes

@gh2_fan. see page 1
http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/42122#Comment_42122

eyefi

More Comparisons: HBR 25p / 24H. QuantumX v1.1 ISO 200, 5600k, shutter 50, f16, Standard -2.-2.0.-2, AFS, Pan14-140 @ 140, O.I.S. on. (screenshots quicktime actual size)(Media Info report respectively).

eyefi

Some Comparisons: HBR 25p / 24H. QuantumX v1.1 ISO 200, 5600k, shutter 50, f16, Standard -2.-2.0.-2, Manual Focus, Pan14-140, O.I.S. on. (screenshots quicktime actual size)(Media Info report respectively).

driftwood

@eyefi Brilliant testing my friend. Thankyou. Thats some of the best reporting Ive seen here. Undoubtedly we can improve this and a tighter matrix based on the current one is being worked on.

@Duartix yes scaled correctly you can get back your 'starve P and B frames patches' (which, incidently, is the biggest headache of this codec in general - we're all aware of this). We'll get there, but overall Im pleased with my matrix and theres definite improvement against banding I believe. I was out today filming skies and sea (I got the blues!) and its certainly an improvement - I believe this is partly due to my new Quant scaling matrix plus Im giving a lot more bitrate over to 1080 mode in the frame buffers - its like a 10 bit bitrate allocated to a 4:2:0 setting.

We've now got to get the HBR and interlaced modes working harder and for 1080i I gues a 3GOP could be called for (which has been used on one of the older Quantums) so yes @Zaven13, that's another thing to look at. Let's wrestle on... :-)

eyefi

@driftwood Thanks to you Sir. I'll keep trying to upload more tests. Maibe manual lenses, indoors, outdoors, ExTele, 720p50. Image quality wise 24H is more than what I could ask for. I'll try some 24H pans between Q9b and QX. I got the feeling today that QX might be smoother.

cosimo_bullo

@eyefi, is it possible you're only getting one field from the HBR stuff? It looks good but is seemingly much softer than the 24H.

Banding does seem very improved here so far.

towi

@ eyefi

Quantum X doesn't work very good in HBR mode (neither in FSH), IMHO. Dritwood's patches are absolutely fantastic for 24p! But in FSH (and HBR) mode all the Intra-patches do not produce high quality I-frames and scenes containing high frequency details mostly show mosquito noise (this goes for my personal testings with my camera, of course). For HBR/25p try LPowell's "Flowmotion" patch with FW 1.1 in PTools 3.64 or - even slightly better - RalphB's "Sanity" patch. Although "Flowmotion" is GOP3 and features a higher bitrate "Sanity" shows less macro blocking in the blacks (I assume this is due to the AQ4 setting in Sanity). Too, "Sanity" is stable whilst "Flowmotion" chrashes in ETC mode shooting high frequency details.

eyefi

@cosimo_bullo I don't think so, but let me put the last HBR and 24H through 5dtorgb and I'll post back the results. @towi, Thanks for the tip, I'll test Flowmotion and Sanity and cross test with QuantumX all in HBR.

LPowell

@towi Flow Motion v1.0 is not optimized for firmware V1.1 (PTool 3.64 doesn't support some of Flow Motion's patches when used with firmware v1.1). I'm currently testing Flow Motion v1.1 and will soon release a fully optimized patch, supporting HBR 25/30p with a 3-frame GOP.

mozes

@towi that "mosquito noise" i did have it to. (see some post back)
are you sure it not because off the ISO bug?

onionbrain

@driftwood

The weather here in Virginia is awful at the moment, so I couldn't go out and play with Quantum X v1. Instead, I set the camera on a tripod, stuck in a Sandisk 64gig, 95Mbps card, and hit record for a video style timelapse so boring I wouldn't bother to produce and post it.

The scene was detailed -- barn and mountains, but there was minimal cloud movement, closer to a big chunk of "London gray."

13 clips were recorded, it spanned, and imported into Premiere Pro CS5.5 as one two hour and nineteen minute clip. It looks like it filled the card minutes before the battery died -- but -- if the numbers say otherwise -- then the battery died first.

Bit rates on the clips ranged from 62 Mbps at the start down to 40 Mbps as it grew darker.

Visually, at default settings, v11 seems a little softer/cleaner than v10, so I suspect Panasonic enhanced the noise reduction feature. So -- I suspect the difference between the two versions is going to effect a side by side comparison of X1 with 9b. That said -- X1 looks good, but it doesn't seem to be as detailed as 9b.

towi

@LPowell

yes, I know Flowmotion was created for PTools 3.63/FW1.0. However I've loaded it in PTools 3.64 to test HBR/25p with it.

I am looking very forward to Flowmotion for PTools 3.64/FW1.1 - GOP3 and a bitrate somewhere around 100Mbits for 24p AND 25p AND 50i is exactly the patch I would love to use.

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