Official Low GOP topic, series 5

driftwood

@evanflys you should try that chart on most patches including stock. You get problems. :-)

evanflys

You got that right Driftwood! For what I shoot, at 720P60, I have to have 100% reliability and that chart is the king of torture. Sage's tweaked version of your settings is working really well for me right now but I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

I posted what I'd found just so you could get some feedback.

I really appreciate all you and your fellow testers have done for all of us!

onionbrain

@driftwood

I have a few free minutes so I went outside to play with Quantum X1 -- since there's a perfectly blue sky out and you said that was an objective.

All of the below is with 24H...

I used two legendary Nikon lenses known for their sharpness -- the 28mm f/2.8 AI-S (some say the sharpest lens ever made my Nikon), and the 75-150mm f/3.5 AI-S E-series (at least as sharp as my 70-200mm G lens). Both lenses with and without the Genus variable ND filter.

Regarding sky banding -- if you stare at the screen and tilt the camera up and down through the gradations in the sky -- and if you're doing this while looking only for banding -- you'll see mild banding. Yes, worse than any Canon HDSLR or broadcast camera (excepting the EX1/3). BUT -- I assume no normal person is going to do the above -- so, indeed, banding isn't noticeable in blue skies. On grey walls it also wasn't very apparent.

That said -- banding wasn't a major problem with 9b.

What did hit me hard was the softness relative to 9b. Those were some sharp optics on detailed scenes -- and the details of 9b simply weren't there -- rather the standard kind of mush we're used to seeing from unimpressive cameras. THAT IS A RELATIVE STATEMENT -- relative to 9b. I'm sure if I had never spent two or three weeks with 9b -- I'd be praising Quantum X1 and running down streets joyously filming with it.

rajamalik

dum dum

blackspot

Hi, How can you control the HBR mode bitrate in new Ptool? Tried to push up to 200mbits/s all AVCHD modes, but I can see NO difference on HBR(or SH) recorded footage (avg.) bitrate...? :/ though 24P mode is "dead" ;) Something I dont understand?

mozes

@Driftwood, "Stock Long GOP 66M-35M settings enjoying 720p B frames and HBR"
A quik test.
HBR 25p
F4, Shutter 1/25, profile standard 0, 0. 0, 0 till iso 4000 its oké,
Higher give a error and the batterie have to be removed.
Same settings in In 720 50p mode, iso 1250 give a error and batterie have to be removed.
No further testing done....

All in very low light, with a oly 14-150 f4 :f5.6 lens

balazer

@blackspot, I believe the "Other Modes Top" bit rate setting is limiting HBR mode.

driftwood

@mozes The Long GOP stuff is just a demo of it working for anyone wanting to fine tune. Its pretty good as it is, but yes needs tuning. This I have left to Chris who is working on some matrixes for his settings soon, no doubt he will be playing with his settings - and B frames - this is a demonstration only of B frames - ie This has been produced NOT to step on anyone elses toes ;-) Long GOP is best left to Chris, the expert.

In the meantime, a B frames version of 720p which is already tested, will be incorporated into Quantum X v2 (released tonight with adjusted Driftwood Matrix).

mozes

Thx for the explaining @driftwood

driftwood

@blackspot 200mbits will die unless the right choice of settings are made and most certainly at that level buffer = 0x3600000 should be selected.

blackspot

@balazer Thanks, Ill check that. Though I have no idea about the scale or units of the "Other modes Top" setting (its not bits/s). I think Ill leave this for pros.

@driftwood Thanks, My goal with that setting was to get the bitrate up for HBR mode. I cannot get it above ~52mb/s no matter what :/ I guess I keep waiting for some "insanely high bitrate mode"-patch (don't need spanning) ;) . I do musicvideos and just need that minimum of 1min (HighestQ Intra) record time, no matter file size :) eh.

balazer

The top and bottom bit rate setting are in kbps. Go ahead and experiment with them. When the encoder makes the bit rate go above Top for some time, the encoder goes into fallback mode, which produces much smaller frames and a lower bit rate. Raise the top setting, and the encoder will produce higher bit rates before having to go into fallback mode.

Macalincag

@rajamalik

Please understand what rolling shutter is before asking questions with such obvious answers.

rajamalik

@Macalincag its alright i understood i am supposed to report something

rajamalik

@ Driftwood using gh2+100-300g+64g 96m/s scandisk i am getting Flickering effect from Quantum X v1 24h setting. worst case i thought it matter only in high iso and tried in day with iso 160. no use shutter speed tried 50 to 160 above 160 shutters the flickz is getting very very worse --better one is shutter 50. now shutter 25 helped but still has some flickering. lens apature was set fixed in f5.0 and also tested many variations. no use at all "Flickering" . please help (thanks Macalincag) i am confused thats why,...now clear

towi

@driftwood

"Sky banding seemed improved to me on 24p and 60p with my matrix"

Is it possible to copy the Scaling tables into other patches?

spacewig

@driftwood

Sorry to bother you with what has been answered - but not clear to me - when it seems everyone else wants a piece of your mind...

Two Questions: 1) In your opinion is there an advantage to using Quantum V9b with the new PTools (i.e. with FW 1.1 installed) rather than with the stock firmware? 2) Purely out of curiosity, has the Skin Tone Demo-reel been dropped or will that be released at a later time?

Thanks again for all the awesome work and development! I have just finished filming a dark comedy short and will share once edited and blah blah blah.

Cheers

driftwood

Hi @spacewig, They'll be a n updated Quantum X variation of 9b shortly.

BTW Skin tones edit hasnt been dropped, its half finished, just been too busy developing/alpha/beta testing and working on a Beginners guide to AVCHD & Lumix Gxx plus an Advanced Guide to AVCHD for the wiki. Things take time... sorry its not up yet, plus, a few other people havent got in their skin tones yet, so I will probably extend the deadline till the end of this month now, plus it gives people the opportunity to show new settings made with v1.1 as the Skin Tones demo is NOT just for GOP1 settings. It'd be good to see all filmmakers using their own/fav settings incorporated in the skin tones demo especially as we can now customise the quant matrixes - softer - finer etc...

spacewig

@driftwood

OK thanks, amigo, and no need to apologize. I want to be clear that I was just curious about Skin Tone demo and was in no way, subtly or otherwise, pushing anyone to hurry up. I am a beginner and so am interested in how people achieve great results with the same gear I'm using, but have no issues with waiting to obtain the info.

Muchos gracias!

qwerty123

Great work @driftwood! Mad respect!

blackspot

@rajamalik Its hardly a problem with the patch. Do you see flickering using natural daylight?

rajamalik

@blackspot i found a solution from mr.driftwood. he shared a very good information regarding the NTSC/PAL. the problem i faced is the shutter speed and the native setting. for u r info "shutter speed and match it to your country's Hz. PAL = 25, 50, 100 etc..NTSC = 30, 60, 125, etc..." this is exactly what he said.people with flickering just take a note. for NTSC 30 60 125 for PAL 25 50 100. it works fine if you r through with these! Tested! & Working!

blackspot

@rajamalik Thats basicly what I was saying ;) Thats no prob in daylight.

sylwester

@driftwood I have modified a little your Quantum 100 v 3b. I like very much Your quantizer matrix, which deals very well with noise and details. The most important movie modes for me is 720p50 and HBR mode, and the ability to use it with Class10 SD card.

I get beautiful 720p50 with Bframes (attached screenshot and StreamParser analysis with static and moving shots), stable with c10 SD.

I get very good 1080p25 HBR video, stable with static and moving, however not spanning with C10 (dont bother now).

Interesting thing is, that with static and moving shots there is a difference, how bitrate behaves. And i dont understand it. I cant get smooth bitrate, without peaks with static scenes. I also attached StramParser analysis for 24p, that gives a satisfactory quality for me, but also gives bitrate peaks.

The modified 24/FSH setting are: bitrate 64M/48M, Encoder setting 720 1 = 3 (for Bframes) and quantizer set to 12 (in addition to lower 24/FSH bitrates). Did i forgot about something or doing wrong?

All shots: shutter 1/50s, ISO 2500, AWB, AFS, Lumix 20mm@f4, underexposed 1-2 steps.

spacewig

@sylwester

I apologize in advance if this is common knowledge, but what is the purpose of underexposing deliberately and how to you bring the footage up to proper exposure in post???

Thanks in advance for your answer!

Cheers

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

Tags in Topic

Top Posters