ColorGHear TOOLKIT- color grading SYSTEM for AE

sam_stickland

@shian Do you have a tutorial up on why you prefer Log colour space? For years I've been reading the opposite. For example, this post from Stu Maschwitz on ProLost:

http://prolost.com/blog/2009/9/30/passing-the-linear-torch.html

No_SuRReNDeR

@shian Oh ...I see that explains allot. I need to watch all of the tutorials-I know- I just got excited and figured I could figure it out on my own. I wasn't using the adjust layers for anything other than the letterbox...I haven't used AE since film school and it was AE6.5 back then so yeah...I'm a bit behind with proper workflow.

So say I want to use the Ghear Tony Scott 3way ...I drop that one on its own adjustment layer, then I want use Ghrain killer I also do that on separate layer. Then I think its too greenish and I use the green killer....that too is on a separate layer correct?

stoney

Andrew Kramer has a good set of basic After Effects training. Plus more keyboard shortcuts. Then ready for the training, I guess. @shian Yeap great idea to show us more AE tips. Thanks.

shian

@sam_strickland Yeah, Stu is really good at confusing people, and making things too complicated. Like Stu, I too have worked in the VFX compositing world, the major difference is, when Stu finishes his work it all gets rendered out, and off-loaded to a LOG DPX sequence, and those drives get couriered to us, and we (or one of the other 3 majors) finish them off. We ALWAYS begin in LOG, and export our final DI in log - linear is an afterthought - we know that for video (tape, DVD, Bluray), it will have to be converted to linear, so of course we do send a version to QC with a linear conversion, but we never work in it. Linear conversion will bake in certain things we don't want in our workflow.

Linear is an INTERPRETATION of your image, but it is NOT your image. LOG is the only color space that can show you the maximum amount of data in your image short of bouncing around through all the LUTs. Linear will hide, mask, and distort your image. Work in linear at your peril.

Stu is trying to help, and I get what he is saying. What Stu is trying to save people from is that horrifying realization when you love your image on your computer screen and you burn it to DVD or BLURAY only to find it looks horrible on your TV. But I have found that exporting my way, and finishing in QT Pro does the same thing, without all the math, and headaches, and hassle.

I haven't covered, yet, how to calibrate your system and workflow yet in detail on the site, but I will. (Although a few pages back I did post it in brief.) But, like I've posted before, working with CGT in AFX the way I've designed it, I have never taken a drive of a project graded at home on my system to a post house for mastering and been ambushed by things looking differently on the high grade stuff. And I'm working on an iMac and a Panasonic Plasma TV....no DVS, or Dolby monitor here (not wasting $20,000 on that.... although they are VERY nice to work on, but not necessary.)

shian

@No_SuRReNDeR basically, watch the mixer tut, and working with Sequences, and there will be an addendum to working with sequences up soon to help those coming from FCP and are used to copy and paste attributes. (u don't in AFX) but there's a way to accomplish the same thing.

stoney

Rendering 75 seconds original MTS file with 4 stylish layers, a couple of technical layers, and text animations took 2 hours in my 2010 macbook pro with 8GB RAM. Yeap I turned off the displaying option.

If the source file is transcoded by 5DtoRGB, will it render faster?

shian

Aw, man I'm totally bummed. My mentor, the man that recruited me to come to Hollywood, John Lowry has passed. I owe him so much. When I worked for his company, I learned nearly everything I know about cinematic image processing and grading. He was the sweetest man, the kindest employer, a true life coach - he wanted all his employees to go on to accomplish great things whether it was with the company, or on their own.

http://www.apple.com/ca/pro/film/lowry/starwars/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowry_Digital

stoney

Sounds like he was a good man. Rest in peace.

No_SuRReNDeR · Screen shot 2012-01-23 at 1.52.45 PM.png

OK so here is how I have it now...youre right-well of course you are but.... workflow is much smoother now. (Think I need pull the grain kill down quite a bit... reduced in image 3)

MarkV

@No_SuRReNDeR: I´m no pro here, but I think you should check your gears order, right @shian ? :-)

No_SuRReNDeR · Screen shot 2012-01-23 at 2.27.59 PM.png

@MarkV What order do you suggest ? I think the spectral enhancer moved up for some reason...

Is this right then...?

artiswar

@stonebat - I'm having the same problem. I have a technical grade in Color Finesse, several (4 to 5) gears stacked with a film grain layer over it all. Some clips have Neat Video and some have text. Pushing 11 hours to render 2 or so minutes of 720p footage on a 2009 MacBook Pro with 4gb of RAM @shian - Is this normal or am I missing something?

shian

Go to your preferences - Make sure that multi-core rendering is on, check the "render multiple frames simultaneously" checkbox, try allocating more memory to AFX, and fewer to everything else, make sure nothing else is running. I always restart before a render to clear out the virtual memory. And the estimates aren't always correct, AFX estimates by how long it takes to render the first few frames. Film Grain and GHrain Killer will boost render times dramatically if not applied as set. (tweeking the settings, risks adding increased render times)

I only use GHrain Killer when absolutely necessary, reports from other users indicates that NeatVideo will sometimes double render times over GHrain Killer.

perty

Sorry to hear the bad news Shian.

Hope you can get over the loss quickly. I'm sure everybody here will understand if you need to take some time out.

Take care.

itimjim

@shian

Just to repeat what @perty said. Totally understand if you need to take some time out.

stoney

+1. Everyone needs a break sometimes.

shian

How to treat sequences and apply "copy and paste attributes" type grading to various clips at once Tutorial is now live.

kanintesova

@shian: sorry to hear about your friend and mentor. Life... Think of it, still he contributed to the arts and passed it on - great deed, as we all shall pass. It made me think of color grading and the process of image manipulation and scanning, development etc. Pre-computers (fast enough and budget-wise feasible) what was the workflow? How much more "creative" and experimental can we be now (yes, i LOVE the undo button - it is a cost saver and a curse, since there is also a lot of indecision)?

What was the worklflow then? Now that "everybody" got HD and filmlooks, how can we stand out? Is it again bringing content and story, not just good looks? I know they are intertwined. No story, we turn to the other noise to see what's up... ;) What do you think? Interesting to hear ppl in the "business" as an aspiring artist. If you have the time I'd love to hear your stance and point of view... Maybe wrong forum - as a subscriber, should I take it at CGH?

Peace! Best from Sweden!

ALWAYS LABEL :P... YEP!

No_SuRReNDeR

So now that I took the time to watch all the tutorials and not ASSume I understand the tool...now my footage is on fire. This is such a great way to grade footage and its a steal at the current price.

redbaron

A quick question about workflow. Shian , or anyone else, do you do basic cuts in Premiere or FCP and then import into AE for grading? Does anyone prefer Dynamic Linking to Importing? And also, if you do use Premeire, is ther an advantage to using the curves in AE in 32 bit mode over using the curves in Premiere in native 32 bit mode? The reason I ask is the response in Premiere is realtime for 32 bit curves/levels using the CUDA openGL acceleration.

Thanks. P.S. I am a proud owner of ColorGHear!

artiswar

@redbaron - I cut my edit in Premiere, then proceed to send each clip with Dynamic Link to After Effects to do my grading. Technical grade with Color Finesse, creative grade in ColorGHear. Then it's back to Premiere to render and encode. I'm wondering, though if it's quicker to render each clip out of After Effects and replace the clips in Premiere with the newly created files. @shian - Is this preferable, even if I'm losing a generation of video (i.e. Compressing again)

shian

Thank you guys for your well wishes, I'm feeling better physically, and emotionally, and am determined to knock out the legacy support today.

I was checking the site's trackback stats of late, and noticed that not everyone that comes to the CGT site comes from here, nor are they privy to these conversations or the grateful emails I have received from many of you. I would appreciate it, if those who have bought CGT and like it, would post comments on the site itself, and let those checking it out know how you feel. Thanks to those who already have, no need to post a comment again.

Also feel free to share links to the videos and the site on other message boards. I've seen a few links coming in from other forums, thanks to whoever posted those.

Also, when the next tutorial goes live, many of you will find that your patronage will have long lasting benefits you probably hadn't anticipated. You are not just going to get grading and color correction insight from me, but I'll be launching a new tutorial series with tips on pre-production, test shooting to find the right look, cinematography, building your own lights, as well as Industry Professionals dropping by to give you hands on demos - everything from storyboarding, production design, VFX, fabrication (making, pouring, and pulling molds), set construction on a budget, costuming, make-up (camera and FX), and much more. And everyone who has purchased CGT before Feb 15th will be grandfathered in. So it won't cost you a dime extra.

shian

@redbaron The render in engine in AFX is so far superior to anything else in it's class. Your trip to AE should be your next to last step. Render out of AE to a 444 format (ProRes 444 or DNxHD) and then use QT Pro to render out everything else you need from that master file. There's a tutorial on the site that shows you how.

I even pull my ProRes masters into Compressor to make Bluray M2V's and DVD files.

You don't have to do it this way, but if you aren't getting results like the stuff you've seen from me, then that is why.

shian

@artiswar I hate re-compressing. I used to have to do it coming out of FCP without automatic duck, and I hated it. My advice: never re-compress anything unless you have no other choice.

With the new tutorial addendum to working with sequences, I think I've eliminated the need to have to do any selective grading and roundtripping.

Although, I'm curious how CGT performs in your Premiere roundtrip model, vs rendering out of AE.

No_SuRReNDeR

@shian So as you know Im shooting a feature ATM...the guys I'm working with are building an edit in Premiere. I plan to have them complete the final cut edit there, with just basic minimal color correction. Then I am planing to use Dynamic link to send the sequence over to AE and do all the grading. After which is complete...I then render the film(probably take 2 days with big fans blowing on the laptop) out to the ProRes 444 for author Bluray and DVD versions via compressor or perhaps Media Encoder....is that a good workflow? Also is there some way to harness the power of another Macbook Pro to render farm ? Stoopid question I'm sure...

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