I don't know if Sony should feel too bad just yet:

https://www.cinema5d.com/sony-climbs-to-2-in-the-us-full-frame-camera-market/

The only thing I think is an issue is that a super improved a7s/r mkiii will eat into their own professional range. But it would sell more I think.

@caveport, with the GH5 release, I'm now of the opinion that a hybrid camera (high quality stills & video) is almost within our grasp.

I believe its only a matter of time before we see higher priced hybrid cameras that compete head-to-head with dedicated video cameras.

Why shouldn't there be a $5-10k GH6 with a sensor with 14stops of DR? I think many people would jump at that! (I know the a7rII can do that - but not at 10/12/14 bit). The cameras may have to get bigger to compensate for electronics and heat- but it would still be a better form factor.

Which for me is not an issue, as even a more expensive hybrid would save me money- as I wouldn't need to have 2 bodies (one for photo- one for video).

Having dedicated film cameras is a throwback from the past. Due to the physical limitations of film, and needing drive motors etc for film cameras. That is no longer the case, and DSLR style hybrid solutions offer the best form factor for video & stills cameras.

Especially if you consider that all major vendors have expressed there interest in 'continuous photo shooting' its only a hop-skip-jump to a future without dedicated video cameras.

I also don't know how much profit is in it for these companies to sell $40k cameras.

Don't get me wrong, I still think pro-video should exist. But why should we buy a $40k camera that can't also take photos? Especially if they have a great sensor?

I want to see a $40k varicam that can also shoot photos! :-)

@caveport. I really do wish that all these companies would stop thinking that their hybrid cameras are in competition, but in reality they know that there are many videographers that would not purchase a higher end product if their hybrids were more feature rich. Panasonic is in a very different position- as their MFT system doesn't translate into their Varicam range- so at least the mount is non-competitive.

I'm only taking from a videographers perspective, not an ENG perspective, or Hollywood or studio perspective.

All I am saying is that as per VK's graph, projected sensor sales are mainly in mobile - security - and car industries.

Obviously if anyone works in ENG everyday- then you need an ENG cam.

Is sad really that so much information exists regarding profit and sales regarding Japanese camera companies. Cameras are machines that create something special, preserve memory, and express emotion. They are magic, and sometimes magic is special. We are not talking about ovens, or washingmachines. (Not that those things are not special as well). It's just that these cameras are artful devices. You need to think like a creative a bit to design it. You don't think about artistic expression when designing a washing machine. (Probably now days we do).

They should be more like RED camera. Just make really amazing stuff. Unfortunately this probably isn't realistic. It would be nice to just keep a bit more of the magic.

Instead we get 1000's of different camera models, many of which have been replaced already by smart phones. I really hope in the future we get more magic from camera companies. Placing an electronic ND in a camera is a good start! ;-)

Well, it just looks so much like a rat race. Instead of taking risks and creating new and amazing products we get a 1000 different types of device- all trying to make cash. Many of which are exactly the same, or are obsolete before they are even released. We document our culture, and very existence with these machines.

Sometimes to make great innovation you have to be a little bit crazy, most CEO's personality type is that of a psychopath, they are simply able to channel into something creative.

Without RED shaking up the camera industry, and even without the GH1/2 hack, I doubt we would be at the place we are now in camera land. We would all probably still be using 20mbps interlaced cameras.

I don't know the exact way to put this. But I do think new products can become game changers, this is simple fact. Sony is good example of this, so is GH1/2 hack. All products produced today need to be better and communicate that benefit to a user in order to be financially successful in the current market system. No company exists in a vacuum.

Hence Red came out with new ideas, and forced other companies to adapt to be competitive. Such is natural selection in nature. Even today - Red is only company with shipping 8k sensor. I know that eventually all cameras will be 8k, but right now that doesn't help if you want to shoot 8k.

Same with GH1/2 hack. Panasonic had to develop more advanced video features in GH line that were unlocked by you. Otherwise who would purchase new GH3/4/5? (I skipped GH3 BTW- not enough new features).

Hence why we move from SD to HD to 4k. New benchmark is set. Otherwise, what other market force would drive innovation, or development. We have to agree that HD is better than SD.

Many products exist that no longer experience iterative evolution. Take the Piano for example. This device has stayed the same for 100 years, yet in its early life was full of innovation, new ideas, mistakes, and evolution. (I know a piano maker who is not happy with this fact).

Yes we have new keyboards that are similar to Piano and can play any MIDI instrument, but the Piano itself has not changed. Why? I don't know. But never ending evolution of a product does not exist. At some stage we will also reach the end of digital camera evolution. And then something else will take over. Same is happening with CPU's right now.

Let's look at this another way: I doubt any other software engineer would have reversed engineered the GH1/2.

My Red statement was more about companies taking risks, which is impossible in a market based system. As they need to make cash- and risky ideas are not good in making cash, sometimes they work - sometimes they fail.

Either way, it's impossible to prove either logic. I think this is more philosophy than cameras now. ;-)

@ alcomposer I do think that it can be very difficult to understand the relationship between the motivation behind new ideas & products and the commercial interests that fund the development of those ideas to make them a physical reality.

Having said that.... I wholeheartedly disagree with most of Vitaliy's comments on capitalism and his obsession with "ruling class" ideas. Yes a lot of what he says makes sense at a fundamental level, but no amount of discussion will change the status quo. Deeds, not words! In this context Vitaliy has proven his worth by creating this website for us to use.

I wholeheartedly disagree with most of Vitaliy's comments on capitalism and his obsession with "ruling class" ideas. Yes a lot of what he says makes sense at a fundamental level, but no amount of discussion will change the status quo.

All that he says not only makes sense, but is scientific. And can be used in real life to make predictions, contrary to fairy tales not obsessed with ruling class :-)

@alcomposer

I don't really attribute myself to either idealism, or determinism. However, as quantum physics is most likely functioning inside our brain, then it is possible that quantum phenomina such as true randomness occours. If so then there is no way to predict which company or venture, or film or any endeavour human or otherwise will succeed or fail. Red camera could easly have failed, or possibly still fail. There is still time for many events to occour based on quantum superposition.

You don't need to attribute anything, but looking at all you posts (including this part) it is clear that you are idealist. Btw, science for now do not have any real foundations to talk about "quantum phenomina" inside our brains (except few popular books on topic). Actually, due to capitalism brain research almost stalled as it require different level of socialization and information openness.