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2K BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera, active m43, $995
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  • cantsincantsin

    Better example: https://vimeo.com/groups/blackmagicpocketcinema/videos/86894284

    But like RED cameras, the BM cameras don't really have an out-of-the-box look, but colors totally depend on the choices and skills of the colorist.

  • brunoalmeidabrunoalmeida

    @jonpais Lucky guy, if you don't see any advantage on the pocket camera, just buy a gh1. Is cheaper and with the spare money you can buy some color grading classes.

  • jrdjrd

    @jonpais

    As a last word, I'd just suggest that I think you need to sort out aesthetic preferences and production value from camera performance.

    Even at 9 stops, the BMPCC has much more dynamic range than the GH2 or 3, and the footage is far more malleable in post. Shoot the same subject under the same conditions, and the BMPCC will win easily with respect to detail, dynamic range, etc.

    It all comes to down post-production processing of the footage. BMPCC footage could be made to the look like the GH2/3, if that's what was wanted, by upping contrast, saturation and sharpening. But they call it a "cinema" camera for a reason.....

    What I would suggest is, download some uncorrected BMD film or RAW BMPCC footage, and then work with it in Resolve, to see what's possible. If that's too much trouble, or you prefer HDLSR footage, then your course is clear: just stick with HDSLRs.

  • brianlbrianl

    It's not good to compare a video shot in a studio with controlled lighting and circumstances to basically a home movie shot in fading early evening light.

    I've shot a lot with the GH2 and am now using the BMPCC, I filmed a street with the BMPCC that I've filmed many times with GH2 and it's easy to see the BMPCC has great DR. It's a street striped by pools of shadows, the GH2 either exposes the shadowed area or the sunlit area. You have to choose. BMPCC easily nails both. The BmPcc also has a much more robust codec. That article is interesting, but sooner or later you have to start trusting your eyes.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @jrd @brianl You both couldn't have said it better.. the BMPCC was really created for cinema use & for individuals with true Cinematography, and Color Skills.. but people can't realize that for some reason. One more thing before I close it out that's what we have been asking for years... LOG files, 10bit 422, and RAW all three are available now thanks to BMD.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @jonpais I like that your seeking for answers about the flatness, or washed out images from BMPCC that's why VK build this forum to share our experiences, and discuss things. My only advice to you would be to invest in a Color Correction Course, or use youtube tutorials as color correcting course & finally to get your hands on some BMPCC LOG files and practice on them. Lastly here are a couple videos I think that showcases the camera...

  • kholikholi

    @jonpais

    "exposing correctly proved difficult..."

    Well, yeah, it should, because you don't expose the camera as you would most in RAW. You expose closer to final shooting ProRes, RAW you expose to optimize DR.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @kholi That's good you chiming in because you have a lot of experience using the BMD cameras..

  • jrdjrd

    RAW you expose to optimize DR.

    The wrinkle here is that, according to the review under discussion, BMPCC RAW doesn't actually offer 12 bits in RAW -- just 10 and a little more. They did see a difference in noise levels in low light conditions, comparing ProRes to RAW (the latter has less noise), but if the camera doesn't actually provide 12 bits, I wonder if we should exposing RAW with a light meter as well, rather than ETTR.

  • brianlbrianl

    The BMPCC is harder to expose than the GH's. At least for me. GH has histo, zebras, and a spotmeter. Also, at least with the GH2, an excellent vf. The BMPCC has zebras, and...well that's it, zebras. And a crummy lcd.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    Anyone who comments about the flat pictures they are seeing either needs to get a hold of a camera and try it yourself or shut the hell up. I'm really tired of hearing this same broken record crap on here. It has NOTHING to do with the camera. It's entirely the fault of the user. They

    1. Don't know how to expose the camera and think it's a damn GH2 or GH3 and
    2. Try to learn Resolve for 30 min, cross their arms and pout like a little baby. Learn the camera and learn to grade or go back to a GH2, GH3 or Canon DSLR. It's that simple.
  • kholikholi

    @jrd

    I take most review's with a grain of salt. Until it's ProvidCo (Art Adams), or similar doing tests I kind of ignore it. I hope they should see a difference in noise between ProRes and RAW, ProRes is compressed... right? Haha

    It's okay to ETTR within reason, I don't extreme ETTR anymore on these cameras, it has nothing to do with 10 or 12 bit (and, it is 12-bit in R10) it's to do with saturating the sensor with light, etc. Just me, though.

    My exposure tool's a waveform on my TVLogic mixed with Zebras. I don't have a light meter at the moment, but I've grown accustomed to guesstimating usually within a half stop what I should be at.

  • stanlymanly2stanlymanly2

    @jonpais dude... just zip it. you make yourself look more nooby the more you talk. The video sample you showed, Yeah black and white with contrast. Thats easy to pull off with any camera thats properly exposed. The bmpcc could pull that off. What you don't understand is the BMPCC is designed for heavy grading to get the look and feel the dp wants. The bmpcc will do that video of yours, with more shadow detail and still can be black and white as dull as you want and as contrasty as you want. 12bit Raw and 10 Bit Prores, waste it on black and white? really?!?!

    If you prefer the GH's, go ahead and take them and use them. Don't preach in the forum specifically made for this camera. The bmpcc clearly isn't for you if your vision is black and white with contrasty images. It was made for those who want to manipulate the image to the extreme.

    and the greenish colour cast. The gh2 has that burned in unless you do your picture profiles right. In all honesty, some images have too rich blues or too rich greens in the bmpcc footage all over the web plainly because its the first time anyone has had a full ProresHQ 422 or RAW codec to work with that shows so much more colour. Its an overwhelming workflow that you clearly have never done. So don't go preaching about the GH2 or GH1 here. If you're satisfied with what you have, can it and go your own way. leave this forum to those who want to help and showcase their work with the camera. We are USERS here. Not FANBOYS.

  • kholikholi

    To be fair, I know what @jonpais refers to, but it's no fault of the camera. It's also not uncommon with any other camera that can produce a flat profile.

    And, even THEN, just take a look at Upstream Color... let me know where the contrast's at.

    This isn't a camera specific deal, it's a current trend that I personally am not a fan of... well, actually, I did see a video with a DSO custom that made me want a DSO lens right then and there. It was flat, but rich at the same time.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I'm really tired of hearing this same broken record crap on here. It has NOTHING to do with the camera. It's entirely the fault of the user.

    I think it is interesting review. And main point of it is quite objective raw values analysis. And this needs more research.

    If BMPCC very good camera in some regards? yep.

    But it is also pretty lame in other regards, especially for beginners (in video raw grading and such), as for mass camera, if they want to gout out of their niche, user can't be at fault. Improve algorithms in camera, improve software. Include good and simple video shooting and grading tutorials with camera.

    @kholi

    I have simple question. What exactly prevents camera to show very close to final result on screen while recording flat or recording both? Yep, BMPCC is made for post processing but whole point of digital cameras is to save your time. With BMPCC it was hit of efficiency, while gaining in possibilities. No surprise that many can't use this possibilities without enough skill.

  • kholikholi

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    You have a fair point, but I also think it's not so black and white: digital, the moment, is an alternative that doesn't necessarily take that much less time or cost in comparison to film when considered on larger productions.

    For smaller/no-budget, it's a necessity of budget, and out of that budgetary constraint's born the desire for better quality and control over your digital image. So, I don't think that it's prevented, as we see the Pocket Camera's VIDEO recording mode was better than the 2.5K, and now the 4K Video recording mode is better than the Pocket's.

    I think, from my POV, it's exactly what a very large portion of this niche community wanted... better flexibility in post to make up for a lack of budget in camera.

    No, it's not a surprise that many can't harness the full potential. RED, ARRI, Canon, Sony, and now Blackmagic aren't to blame for this. I mention them all because every single one of those companies camera's feature LOG, in their own flavor, which can drastically change the outcome of images when used.

    On the other hand, RED, Canon, Sony, and Panasonic have "consumer" friendly gamuts built-in for the very reason you mention. Maybe BMD will catch up here with their VIDEO Gamma... I personally... don't need it.

    At any moment I can take everything I've shot and run it through Resolve with a pre-applied node and end up at the same place as a video gamma if need be. It's an extra step, but at least there's flexibility in place of convenience.

    That was LONG... ugh.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @vicharris Strong words but true..

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    On the other hand, RED, Canon, Sony, and Panasonic have "consumer" friendly gamuts built-in for the very reason you mention. Maybe BMD will catch up here with their VIDEO Gamma... I personally... don't need it.

    Thing here is that looking on market and talking with some insiders it seems like time is short for BM. As for big manufacturers who are very focused on and behind the scenes on video improvements it is very easy to add features that now make BM stand apart (it is mostly management decision), while for BM it is almost impossible to compete with big engineering teams, chip manufacturers and developers who also have big libraries and experience.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    Like I said before those cameras requires a certain amount of skills in post production.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @kholi I agree with what you said..

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev I believe BM will live on in the camera department, I think sooner or later people will realize the value BMD offered in their camera line and run right back. You right about BM not being able to compete with the big boys, but as long as they keep improving they will still have a market share. Real talk if BM implements ProRes, and Raw high frame rates to their arsenal I think they would take over the whole 3k - 5k camera market.

  • jrdjrd

    it [exposure] has nothing to do with 10 or 12 bit

    Well, it does, if ETTR, or some variation on it, isn't actually capturing the DR you suppose it is, for lack of bits. In which case, it might make more sense to exposure the subject in the traditional way, with less attention to highlights.

  • kholikholi

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    Yeah, I dunno... I've seen four cameras coming to NAB from various manufacturers and I can honestly say that it's a no. I haven't seen anything from BMD (just to open the air on that), but unless they do something again, I don't see anyone on this forum being as excited for those cameras as they are for the GH4. That's about all I can really speak about, and even if I did say much more (like the few times I blurbed on things here about GH series cameras and now they're here...) people wouldn't believe me lol.

    While large companies have the might to do certain things, they won't: BMD's strengths are DR, Color, ProRes/RAW, Price. They occupy a very specific niche that CanoSonySonic refuse to mess with for very good reasons.

    As long as you have to tack on recorders to get ProRes or use four HD-SDI links to get a fat uncompressed file, BMD's going to be alright with guys like m'self.

    That said, I'm a fan of really good images. My camera's are ranked: Alexa, F35, 4K, F65, 2.5K/Pocket/REDMX

    That's Sony, Arri, RED, and BMD on a top-five list. Bring on more good images, don't care who they're from.

  • kholikholi

    @jrd

    In the case of either Blackmagic cameras shooting RAW (not ProRes), I mean that it doesn't have much to do with how I choose to expose now, because I'm pretty confident that it is 12-bit in Resolve, and it's a matter of knowing how to work with the data.

    To this day there are still people what don't recognize you should use the Exposure slider to set your range. These cameras have been about over a year now.

    @TrackZillas -- lets be realistic... if BMD even had 60P they'd rack up quite a large portion of the community outright. It's just a matter of time...

    Also, I hope I dont' come off as having a tone at all, trying to make sure I'm not!

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    While large companies have the might to do certain things, they won't: BMD's strengths are DR, Color, ProRes/RAW, Price. They occupy a very specific niche that CanoSonySonic refuse to mess with for very good reasons.

    I do not agree here. DR if you will rescale and record raw from any good modern camera is not really BM advantage. Color has not much to do with BM if you speak of raw, more it is related to sensor they use (and they have very little options here). Price is disadvantage. This coming year Panasonic cameras will have LSI that could perfectly output raw in 1080p or 4K ProRes by design, I mean even cheap GF if done right. So, the single thing that remains is management decision.

    Are they afraid? Yep. But as far as I understand they just won't have another option due to reasons located way above and outside camera market.

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