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Diagonal rain appears using GH2 + Premiere Pro CS6 without a hack
  • 115 Replies sorted by
  • matt_gh2matt_gh2

    @BurnetRhoades Right now I'm doing it all in Prem Pro CS6. But I have creative cloud, so I have After Effects and Audition and guess I might be using them too for more difficult to grade and mix scenes/shots. When you say "optical" are you referring to titles in AE? Would def be interested in your thoughts on that. Thanks

  • mintcheeriosmintcheerios

    I've been getting diagonal rain recently using DNxHD and Sony Vegas 12 (didn't even touch CS6), so I don't think Premiere is the culprit.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @mintcheerios Vegas also used the MainConcept decoder. Any NLE that uses this recent MainConcept decoder version will run into the same issue.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    If it's not something MainConcept can fix and release to end users which does an end-run around CS6 then, no, it's Adobe's problem to fix. They shake a stick at their subcontractor and they push out a bug-fix.

    There may be footage that decodes without the rain. I don't believe there are patches that decode without the rain consistently, under all shooting conditions. The reasons people are going along and being like "what rain, I see no rain, what rain?" and then one day, "holy crap, now I have it."

    They start thinking about patches and this and that but odds are they're looking at footage that's not like all the clips they shot where they didn't see it. Every instance of it showing up that I've seen online is in areas where the lower part of frame is mostly in shadow, or under-exposed or otherwise made up of midtones and blacks.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    @matt_gh2 Yes, I do all my titling in AE, which has a much better interface for it than Premiere and a lot more flexibility creating non-canned looks (most uploaders don't even seem to change from whatever default font comes up, or turn on antialiasing, or do a stroke in cases where it's needed for clarity, or all kinds of oversights that destroy the finish and presentation quality of their videos).

    Linear-light allows you to more easily replicate the look achieved by doing these sorts of things at an optical house where multiple pieces of film are combined, or what you can do on an Oxberry or other type of optical printer with animation capabilities. It's just another way to remove the "stink" of digital if you're willing to put in the effort, since everyone tries to do grain now or jiggle things. The jig is up if they're faking all these various analog aesthetics and then overlay some Chyron or Grass Valley looking titles and motion graphics. That stuff only looks right if you're faking a VHS or 3/4", public access look to all the footage.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @BurnetRhoades By your (business) definition yes it's Adobe. I was laying out the (apparent) technical situation, implying that it might be a long wait.

    About the rain itself: it becomes obvious in underexposed footage, but if you know what to look for you can see it in almost any exposure situation. I am so "in the know" because I just spent a week regenerating complicated intermediates with 5D2RGB, AFTER having a theatrical premiere with the rain projected out on the big screen. Thankfully the audience was too caught up in the action to notice, but it pained me greatly.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    I'd think it was a long wait by business or technical contexts, given it's Adobe. I've been waiting over ten years for After Effects to support greater than 8bit precision in every nook and cranny. They went through the effort to make it 64bit and didn't fix this problem...like...WTF?

  • DouglasHornDouglasHorn

    So I realize that transcoding with 5D2RGB is the fix but honestly, I just don't want to have to do that. I end up with two sets of footage (original plus transcoded) and the transcoded stuff is huge. Plus it's just a big extra step that I thought I'd left behind. If there is a patch that tends not to do it, I would use that instead, even if it wasn't the one I'd choose otherwise.

    I have a secret--I think all the patches on the site right now are so darn good that I don't really pay a huge amount of attention to which one I'm using. Perhaps if I shot a feature film I would revisit this, but for 95% of the stuff I shoot, it's all way more than "good enough" and I make my selection more based on usability, ability to playback in camera, and--now--the ability to avoid diagonal rain.

    Have we started a bug report campaign with Adobe to start getting some traction on this? 50-100 new open cases might just light a fire under their butts.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    Still, only gotta have the transcoded files online for as long as you need them to render. Disk is cheap. It's practically disposable now. The only feasible back up system anymore is just buy another disc and make a copy. I bought a 7200RPM 1TB Barracuda with 64mb buffer for like $79 last week. The first array I ever built that was this size, in 2002, took sixteen drives, cost $16K for the raw disc, another $2500 or so for the four towers holding them, and nearly another $500 for the cables. It sounded like a jet engine in the room and was flaky as shit and you didn't want to breath on it for fear of one of the discs crashing.

    My point is, why do the size of the files (once they're not on your shooting media) matter to people? I mean, really? Maybe I'm just getting to old but y'all need some perspective maybe ;)

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @DouglasHorn I've ever only used two patches, I simply don't have time to experiment, I wish I did.

    Flowmotion 2.02 - rain

    Valkyrie 1.3 (I should upgrade, it doesn't span) - no rain

  • DrDaveDrDave

    @saltherring I can guarantee that Digital Rain occurs with the GH2.

    Anyone find any more patches that do not produce digital rain? I'm bored with transcoding. I will try Valkyrie I guess...........................

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    It amazes me the effort people will put into being lazy.

  • SeekingHeartwoodSeekingHeartwood

    no rain with intravenous 2

  • DrDaveDrDave

    Someone suggested changing the GOP in the patch. I haven't tried that yet.

  • PeterParkorrPeterParkorr

    I couldn't transcode my problem clip with any useful results. My unofficial fix was I sent the main file showing digital rain to a video guy. He tried putting it into mpeg streamclip, but it wouldn't go for whatever reason. In the end, he just opened it in CS5 (or5.5?) and saved it as H.264, sent it back to me, and the rain doesn't show in CS6 now.

    The shots that were affected before are still noisy but the digital rain isn't there. You can still see it in the grass in other shots that I didn't send him. @BurnetRhoades please don't burn my crappy titling, I'm just happy to have it done. :)

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I have had no problems with Cineform. It isn't ideal, but you get the advantage of the upsampling for grading.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    @PeterParkorr awww, I wouldn't actually say so if I hated it ;)

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @DrDave This I don't understand (not dumping on Cineform , I use it for mastering).

    HDLink (don't know about ReMaster on Mac) uses whatever DirectShow decoder finds in the system (on Windows this being MainConcept if you have CS6) - at least in my testing.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I had some vid that had the digital rain after rendering with PP CS6, and it disappeared after using Cineform before rendering. So I am assuming it is PP acting weird with AVCHD, which in fact it often does.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @DrDave What does it mean to use "Cineform before rendering"? let's be very specific shall we?

    a) Are you on Windows or OS X?

    If on Windows, did you:

    b) use HDLink to transcode .mts to Cineform avi/mov BEFORE editing

    c) just used a Cineform timeline in which you placed the .mts

    d) both

    If on OS X, did you:

    e) use ReMaster to transcode .mts to Cineform .mov BEFORE editing

    f) just used a Cineform timeline in which you placed the .mts

    g) both

    Thanks for your feedback. "PP acting weird with AVCHD" has a root cause (MainConcept) and your answers will help clarify that.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I use mainly windows

    I edited the vid both ways, one way using native mts (imported the whole card) and one where I joined the files using a file joiner (they are very long files), transcoded to *.avi (never use *.mov, seems to have some problems)

    I never use the Cineform timeline. I always use the AVCHD timeline or one of the others. Don't use remaster

    I also never use PP for pulldown since it only works half the time, but seem ppl seem not to see any difference. These clips, however, were all 24p from the beginning.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @DrDave since you don't play by my bullet points (which would've made a difference), I have to ask again...

    When you "transcoded to .avi", you were using what? HDLink? If not, how exactly does Cineform get into your workflow?

    .avi is a container, did you actually transcode (to the Cineform codec), or you just rewrapped the AVCHD content in an .avi container?

    In MY OWN tests, transcoding to Cineform using HDLink on Windows didn't get rid of the digital rain, because the H.264 DECODER used was the same faulty MainConcept decoder (implemented as a DirectShow filter) used by CS6.

    I have not tried ReMaster on OS X, which is the HDLink equivalent, but since you stated you haven't used it, is not relevant for this discussion.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I took the card from the camera, and used HDLink to transcode to Cineform avi using the progressive setting, high quality, no pulldown, no resize. I used my licensed copy of Cineform, I have not tried the free one.

    I'm assuming when you say digital rain, you see rain in CS6 where you do not see it when you playback the clip outside of CS6.

    Here are two files, the first is the Cineform intermediary solution

    https://truck.it/p/mOaWfQTQsN

    The Second is the AVCHD file encoded directly from PP6

    https://truck.it/p/jMrhW0Zc00

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @DrDave I just ran again my HDLink test and unlike you, I get rain, just like the first time. The only explanation that comes to mind is you have an additional DirectShow decoder for H.264 installed in your system, which overrides the one installed by CS6 (the MainConcept one).

    HDLink uses DirectShow, and there is priority system (if there are multiple decoders available). CS6 however ignores this priority system and sticks to MainConcept.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    There are many different versions of HD Link, so I can't say what exactly the problem is, but if you have the same problem with 5d2RGB, then the "rain" is probably from some other source. I also was able to get rid of the artifacts by using some of the Driftwood patches, you could also try changing the GOP. Some people claim changing the GOP is all that is needed.

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