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Cluster X: Series 1 - moon - ЅріzZ - nebula - drewnet - Slipstream
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  • @kellar42 I see what you are talking about. The initial post was three screen grabs from QuickTime Player X. These next three were taken from the original video clips by MPEG Streamclip. I seem to recall that this is a more accurate way to share stills than screen grabbing.

    Not sure why Moon is more contrasty -- I checked, and none of the picture settings were altered -- but I really like the overall look.

    Flowmotion202_640iso.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    Intravenus1_640iso.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    MoonTrial3_640iso.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
  • I'll look again. I'm a little distracted because I'm having an online war with some asshole on my Youtube page that told me I was moving my Rokinon 24mm Cine lens back and forth to fake ZOOM BREATHING and since my lens wasn't a ZOOM lens I couldn't have breathing!!!!! Yeah, you read all that right and he has a huge as page and reviews gear, now he's thumbs downing all my shit and it's getting pulled down by youtube. Happy times!!

  • what's the link to the youtube video getting commented? lol PM it to me

  • @GravitateMediaGroup Yeah, some of those shots had the look I was thinking about. Looks like a slight grade was done at 35 seconds on the roof...and that's kinda how I thought those lenses would play with Moon. Cool. Thanks.

  • @matt_gh2 yeah, there is a slight grade on a couple clips to see how well the "yellowness" of the sun at that hour could be removed

  • Guys I already know moon is better - rest assured. Ive measured the DC and QP results. Take it from me. Knew this ages ago.

  • I'm sure it is I just can't see that big of a difference in the banding here. Like I said though, like I'm some sort of expert...I just like it and that's good enough for me! :)

  • @driftwood I didn't do ANY test and knew it was better lol I gave FM up months ago. for lack of a better word it's "Played out"

  • @QuickHitRecord, imo, of the three frames posted, above, Moon looks like more of a 'baked in' look, whereas I prefer the flater images like Intravenus and FM, where I can make more post choices to colour correct/grade. Did you change exposure settings for each of the patches? I ask, because Moon seems to have more contrast and perhaps is a little darker, did you expose each take by adjusting exposure to just before the zebra hits 100%? Just an idea, as it may change the result. Not sure if this is the correct method, it is what I would do. Based on your image, Moon appears to be a graat way shoot and post without much post tweaking, which will suit certain projects and client requirements, etc. I might have it all wrong...

  • Anyways if you like the look of a setting stay with it. You cant please everybody - HVS (human visual system) is different from person to person). I can only go on what measures better in the Lab.

  • @whiterabbit have you graded anything shot with moon?

  • That's it, I'm giving up and dusting off my HVX200! I can't take it anymore!! Too many choices!!!!!!!!

  • LOL @vicharris Best thing you've said.

  • @WhiteRabbit My methodology was to find a that had a wide dynamic range and then to cycle through the apertures. The tests above are all with the exact same picture profile (I didn't change anything, and then I double checked when Moon came out looking higher-contrast) and all shot wide open with my Nikkor 28-50mm f/3.5. Nothing was changed. I am just as surprised as you are, but also excited to see a setting that seems to minimize banding a bit.

    Based on what I am seeing Moon has some built-in contrast and is not as flat as the others I tested. Other members are saying that it is a good setting for grading and my test seems to go against that, but I haven't tried grading any footage yet so it's hard to say for sure.

  • @vicharris I got you beat, I'm gonna buy a vx1000 off eBay and go full throttle

  • @WhiteRabbit I know what you mean from @QuickHitRecord 's test, and I don't know why it's like that but my experience is the opposite with Moon. That video I posted a few pages back of my girlfriend running around is getting me PMs on Vimeo of people asking about 'increased Dynamic Range' and stuff like that which is of course unlikely, but still. The file that comes off the camera really quite 'flat', I would say, though a pleasing flat, not one that is ugly without a grade. Not sure why the discrepancy, and I haven't used moon a lot in low light, but I would call it the opposite of baked in.

    @driftwood, excited and standing by to test Moon trial 5.

  • And as always, thank you @driftwood for never being satisfied with 'good enough'.

  • @GravitateMediaGroup, no, I am stuck in a client project, shot on F3, 5D, Go-Pro and another camera (name forgotten), talk about different footage look to match.

    @driftwood, if I read your comment above correctly, I did not mean to offend. The question for me remains, was there any exposure adjustment between the 3 patches applied above, it may vary the result. That is a complicated shot, high DR between black and white, and gradient/banding issues with the light source off the wall. Intravens image, after colourist makes his/her choices, may result in same image as Moon, so like I said, it appears to be a great patch to shoot and bascially just edit, if the WB is correct. Again, I may have it all wrong. Nick, you rock, man!

  • moon is using GH3 technology and rate control. Ive spent an age analysing the GH3 (I have two) on elecard software and VEGA h264 software - the GH2 is doing exceptionally well with 4x4 transform, exceptionally well (albeit requires higher bitrate) :-)

    @WhiteRabbit No. No offence at all. You have always had the respect here.

  • @QuickHitRecord , if all shots were with the lens wide open, then perhaps with Moon you need to little more 'open', to match the 100% peak of the other patches? Perhaps this is the contrast difference?

  • @WhiteRabbit Perhaps. I have some fast primes that I can try out. Maybe this weekend.

    Another thing to note that I may not have mentioned before was that all shots were at 640 ISO, which would decrease dynamic range. In a brighter setting, I'll have to try out 160.

  • @driftwood, when I finish this project, I am going to have to play catch up with these new patches. My question remains, been asking it a lot, however it seems to get passed over as these threads are full of so much footage and evolution of the patches. I am looking for a sharper type of patch for my old lenses which are, perhaps, on the softer side. Does AN C7 Nebula '444 Sharp2' actually sharpens the image or is that a matrix internal thing? Does Moon cater for the legacy softies? Thanks again, you're effort and contribution is appreciated.

  • @WhiteRabbit 444 sharp2 sharpens the existing soft matrix of chris brandin's original 444 matrix idea. So its actually a setting which is not as soft as chris's original - as I too wanted something a tad sharper for my FD and Noktons - but all in all isn't OTT sharp.

    h264 uses perceptual weighting whereby the low frequencies (top left of a matrix) are generally coded with better resolution than the bottom right part of the matrix (the hi frequency range) because the human eye is not brilliantly susceptible to hi frequencies and anything OTT is wasted to the eye. Quantising scaling matrices are used to weight the frequency range in a similar way to a low pass filter.

  • @QuickHitRecord, perhaps stop down, use the GH2 light Meter Mode to measure the centre point, from memory, that is the square with point in the middle. Perhaps if that is pointed at light on the wall and you lock down the tripod and not move anything between patch changes, you may perhaps match the GH2 exposure bars to match each patch. If the patches vary, you can adjust aperture to up/down you control point on the horizontal exposore bar +/- 0. Ideal is highlight near/below 100% on zebra, if light source can provide that. Also, better to have declicked aperture control, for fine adjustment. My method my be incorrect, however, there the difference between your Intravenus and Moon frames, and it begs the question as to why? gtg, thanks, and have a good one.

  • @driftwood, thanks for the clarity. So, of all the Cluster X/Moon patches, do they produce as sharp or sharper footage than AN C7 '444 Sharp2' I am running currently? Isco anamorphic attachements are about to go in the cupboard, again. Softer Lomos back on the test bench. Cheers.

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