Art vs. "Art"

jrd

"You have to do something else if you really want to know a person - two things really, but most often you can accomplish them in one single move. It's the exact same thing you have to do to tell a good story. It's the reason Lynch has a career. It's the reason I get hired. It's where all great Art comes from. It's so universal, and useful it's remarkable."

But this is the most brazen piece of posturing of all -- far more preposterous than saying your dog is a better filmmaker than David Lynch. Are you really sure you know where the irony here begins and ends? Or are in control of it?

mattc

Piss Christ (Andres Serrano, 1987)

Jasketti

@Shian

[quote]The question was: Why does walking out during the interview result in a high success rate in getting hired?[/quote]

Ok, but to say something like this you need more proof than your own word on your successrate, which, no doubt has also a lot to do with the skill and quality of your work and likely recommendations. And based on what you have presented on this forum and at ColorGHear you know your job and are passionate about it. I have myself been on the hiring side a few times - and trust me - if someone walked out on me, he or she would most likely not work for me, ever.

And to point out this opinon of yours could very well be done more clearly and without calling people dumbass? :D

I have never walked out on an interview. And probably will not, unless someone seriously insults me. However I would estimate my succes rate of getting hired to be in the same ballpark between 80-90%.

[quote]The question was also: How do you learn about someone without asking any questions?[/quote]

Google... :D Sure there are a lot of information going back and fourth between people when they are positioned next to oneanother. Gestures, body language, chemical signals, etc. some of which we cant pretend and control. Lack of the prementioned sometomes makes deciphering forum posts rather diffucult :)

But arrogance is just one thing. And it is not universally usable. The bigger the city/company the more likely it is to have positive effect and ofcourse this is completely dependant in the person doing the hiring. I would predict that the more uncertain they are about their own professionalism the more likely they are to hire you after you pull the dissappearing stunt :)

[quote]The whole thread exists to ask and answer those two questions: Everyone is making the mistake of making about me and my dislike for David Lynch. The thread really has nothing to with me or Lynch at all. Lynch is just a device. I could have used any filmmaker, really. But I've found that Lynch works best.[/quote]

Just as you are free to dislike David Lynch or use him as a tool to present your case (however I cant understand why you need to hate him?) so are all of us free to comment on your dislike. ok. ;)

The reason I dont pass LRT is not because I cant figure out the films. I can in my own mind fill the gaps. Maybe youcant and that annoys you about the films. But if "why" is the only question in hiring personnels head when you walk out mid interview - they are doing the wrong work.

Inspired by this thread, I am thinking about implementing a Reverse-LRT on the hiring process of my next shoot :)

Peace.

shian

It's not arrogance. Arrogance is not a calculated tactic. It's not active. Arrogance is usually involuntary. I don't behave arrogantly while walking out. I do it calmly. I don't act offended. I thank them for their time. But I walk away.

I am doing two very specific things by walking out, and they have everything to do with storytelling.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@shian

You reminded me of this

shian

+1

sid

his movies are amazing compared with his singing

jeffharriger

Hehe, always with the lumberjacks David! Delightful.

I tried to read the thread entire, but golly - it's a bore! And that coming from me! I've sat through all of Inland Empire 4 times! So first things last, there's Capra: "There are no rules in film making, but there are sins, and the cardinal sin is dullness." So there's that. (actually, as is so often the case, one of the first scenes floating through my head was the great one at the end of Stardust Memories, where the aliens tell Woody "if you want to do mankind a service, tell funnier jokes.")

Personally, whether it's out of an inherent shyness or what, I'm known for almost never asking questions during a conversation, interview situation, or whatever, even with closer friends. It's not really a great way to connect, if it's a conversation, it's just that... uh, that thing, you know? Who wants to hear what someone's already worked out, or get an eye on their posture, or whatever the hell a "corporate type" would be interested in? Gross. (okay, Dylan, too: "what good are you anyway if you can't stand up to some old businessman?")

So, finally and all, and from my perusing this has been "answered", which of course isn't the point, but did you ever listen to one of those dvd commentaries, or read a critical study of blah blah blah, and gotten to the part where the subject is all "The important thing with my work is to provide all the answers and a very clear and simple short-cut to thinking, cause I got it figured out, yo"? Because somewhere in there-- oh shit, coffee's done. Mr. Lynch and I will certainly agree that this is what's important. "Silencio", as the blue haired lady says at the end of Mulholland Dr. (and yeah, that crew member at the end of Contempt, too. Chilling, those. Fuck, the fun part of it, gang! The fun part!)

jrd

Well, then, V.K. If we're going to be truthful about it, most storytelling today, including non-corporate "indie" films, offers no mystery at all. It's packaged, and "corporatized" storytelling -- nothing left to the imagination, because the maker is selling the story itself, or a summary version of the story, rather than the telling of the story.

It's gone so far that fictional movies (not "based on real events") end with end credits explaining what happened to the characters long after the time-frame of the action. Couldn't let the audience go home without knowing exactly what happens to fictional people in a fictional universe in a fictional future!

So I wish Shian luck, but if he ever gets the interview with Spielberg, it would probably be better not to walk out. Instead, just explain why you normally would have walked out.

brianluce

[quote]The question was: Why does walking out during the interview result in a high success rate in getting hired?[/quote]

He didn't mention that he's applying for jobs at insane asylums. They do things a little different there.

Mark_the_Harp

most storytelling today, including non-corporate "indie" films, offers no mystery at all. It's packaged, and "corporatized" storytelling -- nothing left to the imagination, because the maker is selling the story itself, or a summary version of the story, rather than the telling of the story.

@jrd That's a superb bit of writing - thank you!

RRRR

To be picky; what Shian´s questions are about is not art, but about dramaturgy. Since the 18th century / Immanuel Kant, Fine Art is on the same level as Philosophy and Religion. Many ideas of Kant has since been rejected (by the field itself), but Fine Art retains it´s place as part of the High Cultures. In other words, it´s safe to say that film is not art, but mass culture in general. (Some films are indeed Fine Art anyway, but this is above all due to a particular film being considered as art within the art institution)

Dramaturgy is a property of theatre and psychology. It may be used in art but it is not art. I´m sure Shian is thinking about the specific dramaturgy of the Exhibition, which often make lay men feel insecure. However, it´s a mistake to think that this dramaturgy is what Art is all about.

Obviously, many susbrice to an antropological theory of art but there is no escaping the institution.

shian

nope, nope, and nope

You have to remove me and anything you know, or think you know, about me from the equation. I do not matter. I am simply a character in this story.

starstuff

@shian

Don't know if it has been answered already but I'll give it a shot...

The question was: Why does walking out during the interview result in a high success rate in getting hired?

Unpredictability peaked curiosity. You did something different, something new.

The question was also: How do you learn about someone without asking any questions?

You observe, closely. Pay attention to details. You analyze.

Now give me a chocolate cookie, a fresh and warm one.

Also there's a tree in Helsinki that smells of vomit, took me ages to find out! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/ginko-trees-that-smell-li_n_309498.html (Not Iowa but same tree type)

So long and thanks for all the fish!

shian

+1 and then -1 cuz the 2nd answer is patently wrong. The 2nd answer is what you do after you understand the WHY.

But another +1 because at least for now, you have an answer, even if it may not be entirely correct. It is correct for you. For now. You can get to where you need to go, if you keep thinking this way. Where is it you need to get? I don't know. It's up to you. But at least you're headed in the right direction...

starstuff

The problem I have is that -for me- I have more than one answer to the 2nd question. Re-reading the thread and following your hints (I admit I initially skimmed a lot of text) an answer along the lines of "put someone into an unfamiliar situation and let the 'gut response' of that someone reveal the true character behind the actions" could fit as well. Given that I have at least one more answer to that question I'm guessing that this answer is wrong as well, though maybe not as off as the first one I gave. I'm unsure what POV/perspective I have to take as a prerequisite to answer the question successfully but that probably in itself is key to solve it.

shian

+1 You are definitely getting there. Keep exploring. You're there in spirit and that's what matters.

bimdas

The more you indulge in the illusion of grandeur, the more the mental illness will take affect.

eyefi

silence.

eyefi

lying

eyefi

believe

brianluce

Raining in a dark place. Samantha plays the piano. The wind doesn't sleep. Cracker Jack. Cracker Jack. Ssmrtsa.

shian

Step one: Pull pin, toss grenade... and wait.

Morpheus: We are looking for the Keymaker.

Merovingian: Oh yes, it is true. The Keymaker, of course. But this is not a reason, this is not a `why.' The Keymaker himself, his very nature, is a means, it is not an end, and so, to look for him is to be looking for a means to do... what?

Neo: You know the answer to that question.

Merovingian: But do you? ... You see, there is only one constant, one universal, it is the only real truth: causality. Action. Reaction. Cause and effect.

Morpheus: Everything begins with choice.

Merovingian: No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without. Look there, at that woman. My God, just look at her. Affecting everyone around her, so obvious, so bourgeois, so boring. But wait... Watch - you see, I have sent her a dessert, a very special dessert. I wrote it myself. It starts so simply, each line of the program creating a new effect, just like poetry. First, a rush... heat... her heart flutters. You can see it, Neo, yes? She does not understand why - is it the wine? No. What is it then, what is the reason? And soon it does not matter, soon the why and the reason are gone, and all that matters is the feeling itself. This is the nature of the universe. We struggle against it, we fight to deny it, but it is of course pretense, it is a lie. Beneath our poised appearance, the truth is we are completely out of control. -- Causality. There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand the "why." "Why" is what separates us from them, you from me. "Why" is the only real social power, without it you are powerless. And this is how you come to me, without "why," without power.

mattc

You create the illusion by walking out that you need them less than they need you. So, disorient, by changing the flow of power in the exchange, get them off-balance, feeling out of control more or less but wanting to reestablish control and you follow by making some seemingly polarizing "statement" -- an outlandish claim; an insult, an afront one way or another that they then feel they have to engage on those terms, your terms now, to, again, re-establish their power. (Wash, rinse, repeat as needed.) Having invested in this game -- having invested in this thread -- they, the mark, will justify the energy expended and give you want you want.

Or, more succinctly and cynically:

“Any time that you’re amusing yourself and pumping your own state it’s offering value, any time that the other person becomes a part of your ego structure and your state depends on their reaction it’s taking value...”

It "works" a lot of the time, yes. Watch the succesful pick-up artist at a local bar any night of the week. Of course the fundamental contradiction is that the perp actually does care although seems not to. And whether someone wants to live their life this way and have their exchanges with humans based on this principle is another matter.

jrd

What Shian doesn't seem to consider here is that these people may be as smart as he is. Far from being manipulated, it's much more likely that they're making allowances for him, the same way they make allowances for temperament in actors. Try running (or even just watching) a casting session some time. The better directors and casting directors are unfazed by rude or abrupt behavior, if they think there's value to be had there. If they don't think so, the audition ends in 30 seconds and/or the offender is free to walk out without a word.

In Shian's case, his work is almost certainly known by the director or producer, or at least recommended to them, in advance of the interview. So he's half-hired before he even shows up. That's why they call him back.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

Tags in Topic

Top Posters