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Official Panasonic GH3 topic, series 2
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  • EspenBEspenB

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev "I removed Voldemort link due to heavy speculations and inaccuracy present in it."

    It made sense to me. ;-)

    As I recall there has allready been mentioned somewhere that the new sensor uses 2x binning both horisontally and verically, effectively reducing the sensor read out data during video mode by 4 times.

    As the Panasonic guys states in Voldemorts interview, downscaling side effects can only be avoided by reading out the complete sensor at the full video frame rate and then scale down, but at this price point this is not possible unless the sensor pixel count is reducet substantially (8 or 10 megapixels as said in the interview).

    Anyways, it's somewhat sad that the new GH3 takes a step backwards in regard to down scaling artifacts.

  • AriaAria

    Some of the footage we've seen does in fact show a high level of detail. Admittedly some of it hasn't look great, but then we really don't know how things are coming along with each firmware build of the pre-production model. It does seem that the Moire and Aliasing is not a consistent issue. There are so many cameras in use that have a little Moire and Aliasing, so it's not exactly a deal breaker as some are making it. It all depends on how bad it is and how good the picture quality is overall. Better color, gradation, DR, frame rates, higher bitrate built in codecs, better body and functionality. Overall it's an upgrade.

    Really can't wait to see many more tests with different lenses and hopefully they do add a flat picture profile or at least make the settings adjustments much more effective. It makes no sense to have -5/+5 adjustments and not have them make a substantial difference as has been reported.

  • driftwooddriftwood

    Update from Pany Sales: So December 1st for release then in the Pany shops. I couldnt get my hands on the GH3 last Thursday but am promised an all day tryout this Thursday by Pany UK, plus Im going up to Bracknell on the 15th to meet with Barney Sykes to ask any final questions. Only then will I be able to fully fill out the GH3 FAQ page in detail and answer people's concerns regarding the Intra quality, codec/quantisation benefits, etc...

  • NickBenNickBen

    I look forward to feedback from @Vitaliy_Kiselev , @driftwood , @stonebat , @LPowell or others before buying the final shipping production GH3 at $1299.

    So far, I've been unhappy enough with the sample footage moire online that I cancelled my GH3 order- someone else gets mine while I wait on the sidelines to hear reports from final shipping units.

    If you haven't contributed yet, I encourage you to contribute to the cause!

    I can't go back to worrying about typical DSLR moire again, I'd rather shoot with a camcorder or hacked GH2 again at this point till I get better feedback...

  • magnificomagnifico

    @dritwood, please give us information about DR and above all detail of gh3. for this a simple comparison with gh2 (same exposition, iso, etc and pixel peeping (1:1) some detail surfaces not so near the camera) would be appreciated. thx in advance. Hmm it is not an order from me. Hmm good luck :-)

  • TronTron

    Vitaliy, any chance of working a group buy with Mosaic as incentive for them to develop a drop in AA filter for the GH3? We'd have to verify there is enough room in the sensor well to accommodate one, but it would be interesting to find that out and I would certainly be ready to preorder one that's priced in the $250-$300 range.

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    @driftwood Thank you for all of your effort and for sharing your information with us.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Tron

    I think that you are running before the train. Do not rush.

  • hayhay

    @ magnifico @ mpgxsvcd

    +1

  • tetakpataktetakpatak

    So, about moiré and aliasing of the GH3: testing GH3 with the new Panasonic lens 12-35mm might be not the best idea: the lens is now finally reviewed by the Photozone, and guess what: it has almost 6% of barrel distortion at 12mm!!!! All the GHx cameras are correcting this automatically for the stills. But do the cameras try to correct this huge lens distortion during video shooting as well and could it influent the IQ of the videos? I am speaking for my own: for me the lens 12-35 is dead... it is definitelly not "X" lens as I expected it to be :-(

  • TronTron

    @Vitaliy Ha... fair enough :)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    it has almost 6% of barrel distortion at 12mm!!!! All the GHx cameras are correcting this automatically for the stills.

    I suggest you to check something on lens development.

    But do the cameras try to correct this huge lens distortion during video shooting as well and could it influent the IQ of the videos?

    Yep. Just word "huge" is shit.

    I am speaking for my own: for me the lens 12-35 is dead... it is definitelly not "X" lens as I expected it to be :-(

    I really do not know that you are expected, as lens sharpness and ability to have distortions are directly related. And no, correction is biggest invention for lenses (used by all major manufacturers now and will be soon standard for most lenses).

  • joesivjoesiv

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev tetakpatak has a point about the barrel distortion correction. I never thought it through, but if it's true that the GH3 line skips to get the MP number down low enough to software resample to 1080p, what does that mean for the barrel distortion correction? Usually for still images the correction takes place on the full 16MP image, if you line skip, then attempt to correct, couldn't this exaggerate artifacts such as aliasing since there are far fewer pixels to correct from. Not to mention the sharpening occurs as one of the final steps exaggerating it even more.

    Often I hear people say panasonic lens' seem too sharp, and such, but the lack of "processing" due to dumb lens' might have a lot of actual benefit.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @joesiv

    You seem to mess all things into one.

    First, no one is line skipping anything.

    Second, sensor sends oversized raw into LSI, LSI is making correction.

    No, in video mode correction is not made in 16MP image, as current cameras do not have such resources yet.

    Third, can correction introduce some artefacts? Yes, it can. But usually it all pays back. And, as I said lens design (and zooms especially) has certain restrictions due to how nature works.

    And, as I said, idea to foght for "pure good lenses without corrections" is really bullshit.

    But no one prevent you to use manual lenses :-)

  • tetakpataktetakpatak

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev Thanks for answering my technical question, Vitaliy. So if the LSI corrects the barrel lens distortions in the real time it might indeed cause "nervous" details in the IQ of the new GH3's videos then. Especially during zooming in or out, as the distortion changes with it. You are right that the barrel distortion of 6% isn't huge for a consumer lens, but this pricey lens was released as the "X" one- and professional-class lenses should not make human heads look like grouper's.... but I will use the right topic to post something about it next weekend maybe.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    but this pricey lens was released as the "X" one- and professional-class lenses should not make human heads look like grouper's.... but I will use the right topic to post something about it next weekend maybe.

    Check my blog post about "pricey lenses". And X is just marketing moniker. 45-175mm is also X lens.

    I do not get any ""nervous" details" strange claims, as for zooming, lens report zoom position, so correction changes instantly.

  • tetakpataktetakpatak

    @VK OK, you are right again....my strange claims were just shortening ups for so much writing when I'm in rush. So I add now "aliasing and moiré" of the new GH3: it seems that many people worry about it, although it might be caused just by the new 12-35 lens. Yep, I will definitely keep all my MF lenses :-)

  • joesivjoesiv

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev, oh yeah I forgot, the GH3 doesn't line skip, it bins down to a lower MP, then software resizes.

  • slacklaporteslacklaporte

    aliasing and moiré is often the price to pay to get sharpness.. no?

  • amateuramateur

    hands on : http://frugalfilmmakers.com/2012/11/06/hands-on-with-the-gh3/

    samples : http://www.optyczne.pl/5355-nowo%C5%9B%C4%87-Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-GH3_-_pierwsze_zdj%C4%99cia.html

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    @amateur

    I like how none of the sample images are taken at F2.8 when the lens is a constant aperture F2.8 lens. What sense does ISO 25,600 make with F5.6 when you could just use F2.8?

    I still haven't seen a single person test this camera and the F2.8 lenses like it was an m4/3s camera instead of a full frame camera.

  • amateuramateur

    they want to focus more on noise test ^^ not lens test i'd guess, what should the reason be?

  • mpgxsvcdmpgxsvcd

    @amateur

    The point is that they just assume this lens must be stopped down 2 stops to be sharp. It doesn't.

    It also can't be because they wanted a deeper depth of field either. There are plenty of out of focus areas in those shots. Going to F5.6 didn't help the depth of field.

    If they really knew the equipment they would stop down to F3.2 or F3.5 or even F4.0 in some cases. Instead they just picked F5.6 and sometimes F4.0 because that is what they would do with a full frame camera.

  • amateuramateur

    http://pliki.optyczne.pl/gh3_przyk/P1010033.JPG moire apparing in the flower cup (might see it in FireFox, because google chrome eliminates moiré)

    so it would be like that in video? (Firefox style)

    and why panasonic are not using the same technology as Google chrome that we find in many softwares (like photofiltre that i did my self)

    real scale down should be like this, Don't understand what is so hard to put that kind of processing on a camera

    I'm sure GH2 had this kind of processing

    scaled down.png
    1620 x 1080 - 3M
  • MarcusBrodyMarcusBrody

    I don't see it in the flower cup (also, by flower cup do you mean the planter in the top left with the plant in it?). I'm using firefox. Is that where I should be looking?

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