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Atomos Ninja or any external recorder?
  • 62 Replies sorted by
  • peternappeternap

    I don't know about the Ninja but the Hyperdeck also needs additional software to operate in a windows environment. That was a deal breaker. The Ninja 2 also costs almost 3 times the Hyperdeck.

  • nomadnomad

    The Ninja uses PC compatible directory structure (both versions), HyperDeck has Apple's and needs extra software to mount on a PC.

  • kavadnikavadni

    You need to remove the SSD and use a dock. You need MacDrive to read the drives. There is a utility for upgrading the firmware via usb. You need to install BMD's Desktop Video, it install a few codecs if you want to use the RAW.

  • kazuokazuo

    @Meierhans,

    Thanks dude for the heads up. Your workaround to turn 24 to 25p looks interesting. Actually I discovered that 5DtoRGB software can do very smooth conforming as well. The only problem i have faced so far is sound. Even with external recording, 24 to 25p footage does not sync well with recorded sound, after a while. I have actually gotten into numerous discussions with friends and fellow professionals, and we wanted to find out if sound has the equivalent issue with PAL and NTSC discrepancies. There must be a reason why the sound track would drift.

  • goannagoanna

    Funny, I was just reading about an HDMI conversion on this [French language but writer STEF uses English language liberally] FFMbc forum.

    http://www.cameravideo.net/forum/dv-technique-generale-video-audio/17350-ffmbc.html

    Avec Panasonic GH2 en 24p

    The Panasonic GH2, however, sends out a clean HDMI signal. The down side is that the GH2 wraps the 24p footage into a 60p frame rate as it goes out. This means you have to strip the 3:2 pulldown off in post.

    GH2 HDMI output recorded with Atomos NINJA

    ... c'est le 24p qui est mal interprété en ProRes

    Du coup, début février, des petit malin avait sortie un Script sous AviSynth

    You also must record to a 4.2.2 codec. The script will not work well if you record to a 4.2.0 codec. The following codecs have been successfully tested: UT 422 codec, Cineform, Blackmagic MJPEG codec. [Avisynth script inserted here]

    I also recommend rolling the camera first, then starting the external capture. And stop the external capture before stopping the camera. This will give you the cleanest signal and avoid the discontinuity that occurs when the GH2 switches into and out of record.

    Writer STEF seems to have used the forum to collate a number of loosely related codec stuff. But the explanation is interesting. "... c'est le 24p qui est mal interprété en ProRes" It's the 24P which is badly interpreted by Pro res."

    I've seen that video somewhere else. Sorry if it's a re-posting.

  • nomadnomad

    It's not a misinterpretation. Panny is packing 24p into 60p straight, which does NOT conform to a standard 3:2 pulldown, which should come in the NTSC frequencies which are not evenly divisible, like 23.98 or 59.97.

    How can you divide 60 by 24 without haven extra frames every few seconds? The AviSynth script is taking care of these odd frames.

  • goannagoanna

    @nomad

    A previous writer had failed to get FFmbc to re-encode from Ninja to ProRes. He must have asked Stef what was happening. Stef's reply,

    .". c'est le 24p qui est mal interprété en ProRes"

    means,

    "Straight GH2 HDMI doesn't convert to ProRes" (Sorry, sloppy translation last post).

    In the meantime, someone had posted the AviSynth script, which Stef recommends as the first part in a two-step conversion.

  • kazuokazuo

    The 24p to 60p is strictly an NTSC problem. From all the posts here so far, it's clear if you live in NTSC land, you should safely use the hacks and forget about ext recorders. The need to workaround the issues far outweighs the benefits.

    For PAL users, conforming 24 to 25p sounds credible, but in the long haul, especially if the workflow is tight, such a process can become tedious. The Ninja and Hyperdeck are therefore more relevant to PAL land, despite the lingering chromatic issues.

  • kazuokazuo

    The Hyperdeck looks like a more solid device, but the cumulative cost of using SSD is forbidding. A 256GB disk can record only 12min of uncompressed footage. Perhaps with the upgraded avid codec, you will get more storage space, but imagine getting 3 SSDs. They cost more than the device itself!!!

    I was just thinking about BMC as well - the high cost of SSD will be deal breaker for some

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    kazuo is right. I wrote the Avisynth script shortly after the GH2 was released. This was long before Vitaliy hacked the GH2. At the time it was the only way to get a super, high quality picture out of the camera, and it was definitely worth the effort. Now, of course, the situation is different.

  • kazuokazuo

    @Ralph_B

    Thanks for the posts. Avisynth looks a little technical to me, to be honest it's a steep learning curve, but I want to better understand that part which fixes the red channel. It will help me make an informed decision to buy an external recorder. Cheers mate

  • MeierhansMeierhans

    @kazuo " Actually I discovered that 5DtoRGB software can do very smooth conforming as well. The only problem i have faced so far is sound." Fixing the sound problem is exactly what the Virtualdub preset is doing. It does a direct stream copy of the video (ergo no recompression, fast and lossless) and pitch corrected timestretch of the audio.

  • kazuokazuo

    @Meierhans

    I tried downloading the timestretch file from the post you directed me, but all I got was a VCcard, not a VDF file that i can place in the "Plugin" folder in Virtualdub. Could you kindly repost that time stretch file for me to test. Cheers

  • kavadnikavadni

    Hyperdeck gets just over 12 minutes on a 120G drive, and DNxHD gets just over and hour and 15 minutes on the same drive. I haven't used ProRes.

  • kazuokazuo

    @kavadni

    Thanks dude, I would love to have a Hyperdeck but SSD is expensive.

  • JspatzJspatz

    FWIW I love the Ninja2. It adds a whole layer of professionalism to my rig because of the great display and professional audio. I use it with a D800E but have not tried it with the GH2.

  • MeierhansMeierhans

    @kazuo Its alright, VCF is the right filetype (sharing this name with VCcard). Open Virtualdub, File --> Load Processing Settings. Then everything is preconfigured to do the job, load 24p AVI, hit F7, render it to disk. Audio will be written uncompressed.

  • kavadnikavadni

    I have to dispute that SSD are expensive .. even now

    120G SSD = $200

    64G SDXC = $150

  • goannagoanna

    @kavadni

    +1 re SSD prices. I have just cloned my system drive onto a lightning-fast 250GB SSD cost $AUS170.00

  • punditpundit

    @goanna @kavadni

    I recently purchased an OEM Liteon LZT-256M3S 256GB SATAIII SSD for $169.00 AUD from a Melbourne based retailer.

    Read up to 515MB/s, Write up to 440MB/s

    I'm guessing you have the same drive?

    Windows 7 now boots in 45 secs on a 4 1/2 year old PC.

    SSD's are falling rapidly in price. I would expect 1TB SSD's be under $300 within 6 to 12 months.

  • goannagoanna

    @pundit yes, the same drive, Aus dealer

    http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/suninau2003/m.html?_nkw=ssd&_sacat=0&_odkw=&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3911.c0.m270.l1313

  • spreenispreeni

    Sorry for digging out this thread but I wonder if ninja or ninja 2 could make sense for shooting in 1080i50 or 1080i60. I know, these modes are not so popular because of their worse quality. Anyway, this is the format of my work so I did a short test: I connected the HDMI-out of my GH2 with the HDMI-in of my Matrox MXO2 and recorded the 1080i50 signal with the Matrox I-frame codec at 200MBit.

    After comparing it, I think the i50 quality is significant better and on the same level than 24p (interlaced of course). I couldn't see any differences in red channel other than looking cleaner with sharper borders (filmed a testchart) compared to recorded AVCHD stuff (used FlowMotion 2). But I'm not shure if this was aleady corrected by my Matrox videohardware.

    I have no Ninja for further tests, so did anybody made some experiences with Ninja and the interlaced video modes?

  • nomadnomad

    Yes, the Ninja is good for 1080i50.

  • mo7iesmo7ies

    IMHO, for all practical purposes, Driftwood's high-bitrate hacks, and RalphB's low-rate Sanity do cover all the bases. And with GH2 selling for less than $500 today, just go buy a second cam, and shoot something cool! :)) http://goo.gl/74DIh - I doubt there will be any lower price on this kit.

  • kazuokazuo

    @mo7vies

    Driftwood's settings are brilliant for 24p. He's openly acknowledged that encoding for 25p 50i is slightly different from 24p, and he's not seen anything (including his own work) that comes remotely close to the kind of sharpness that is 24p encoding. For those like myself who live in PAL land, external recording via HDMI seems to be the best way to get quality that is equivalent to the highest 24p hacked settings.

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