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Panasonic AG-AC90 topic and comparison with GH2, video test
  • 130 Replies sorted by
  • PaddyPaddy

    I knew my point wasn't clear enough... For an absolute comparison of both cameras sensitivity/noise at a given ISO setting, yes indeed they should be tested with the exact same parameters, iow with a fast prime on the GH2 since you'll never see a 15-180, f:1.5 lens for the m43 format... But from a practical point of view? Tommy's test was meant to help him choose between two (very different in all respects) cameras ... Since the zoom on the AC90 isn't interchangeable, it was only fair to test it against a rather similar setup. "We talk about ISO 800 vs ISO 6400 with open iris, or ISO 400 vs 3200." Yes, and we talk about comparing a 4/3 sensor vs. three 1/4.7" sensors! I suppose it all sums up to "get a AC90 AND a GH3 with a series of fast primes" to cover all situations, too bad I can't afford both!

  • tommytommy

    @tetakpatak @Mimirsan @paulo_teixeira @Paddy @eyenorth

    Just got back again. Yes I bought the AC90. The text that I wrote (that @tetakpatak is referring to) was before I bought the camera. I was considering the NEX VG900 (and all kind of other cameras) , but I chose the AC90 (for XLR, OIS, 1080 50P, budget, size, weight, batteries, appearance, etc) to combine with my GH2 I made the test with the 14-140 lens (because it was the only lens I had at that moment). I now have the 20 mm pancake and the GH2 wins in low light.
    (but with the 20 mm lens you can not zoom)

    So my personal conclusion: AC90 is much better for run and gun, fast, steady, flexible, and most important sound (I put my wireless sennheiser in 1 channel, and in the other XLR my Shotgun Mic, etc. If you have time to change lenses all the time, and record from a tripod, and sound is not important, the GH2 might win (but it doesn't have 1080 50p such as the AC90.)

    So I am 'happy' now for this moment. I hope in a some years there will be 1 camera that combines all the "pros" of both cameras.

    Hope you guys know enough. Perhaps in a few days, I can post a night time-lapse of both cameras (and compare with the 20mm pancake)...

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Btw, X900 price is still on sales level, and internally it is almost the same as AC90.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

  • AriaAria

    It should also be mentioned that you have a lot of fine tweaking parameters on the AC90 that you don't have on the X900. It reminds me of the AF100 vs. GH2 in terms of having a more Pro level of fine tuning versus a more simplified Consumer level of adjustment levels. For some that may be more important. Still you can likely get most of the same level of image quality from the X900 that you get from the AC90 if you didn't need the XLR and Rings on the lens barrel etc. X900 should make a great B cam for an AC90.

  • StifflaStiffla

    I am still trying to get the AG-AC90 image anywhere near a GH2. Any suggestions? I know that it is almost impossible, because they are such different cameras.

  • tommytommy

    @Stiffla Sorry for the late reply. I don't have good suggestions. What I do: Record with both cameras 'flat' images and create some 'standard' collor correction for both, so they will match as good as possible. In the end, I put the whole timeline in a new layer and add filters/ effects over the total edit. Sorry, it are just different cameras

  • MeierhansMeierhans

    Check this out: http://www.mattroberts.org/MBR_Color_Corrector/

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Meierhans

    I think it is good idea to make normal topic about such filter.

  • MeierhansMeierhans

    Just trying to help. Worked for me to match a HVX and 7D.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Review by Focus Numerique

    http://www.focus-numerique.com/test-1725/camescope-test-camescope-panasonic-ag-ac90-caracteristique-1.html

  • MikeLinnMikeLinn

  • PauloTeixeiraPauloTeixeira

    The AC90 has recently received a firmware update.

    Info: http://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main/soft/ac90/ac90.htm

    Place to download the firmware: http://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main/soft/ac90_agree_e.htm

    Instructions: http://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main/soft/ac90/ac90verup_e.pdf

    I would have loved for this firmware to get hacked to have higher bit rates but it almost seams like Panasonic might bring legal action. Did the GH2 firmware have similar wording as the AC90's firmware? If it did, Panasonic never really got anyone in trouble and so maybe hacking the AC90's firmware wouldn't make a difference. Regardless if it's a risk, you never know if cracking the AC90's firmware would be too complicated.

    The file is called: UPDATE.HDC Maybe the ".HDC" will tell you if it's easy or not.

  • tommytommy

    @PauloTeixeira thnx nice to know. it is not a huge upgrade though. (only pre rec).I think everyone would like his camera to perform a bit better. I sure have know idea how to 'hack', so perhaps you should aks vitaliy or one of the others, but i don't think there will be a (big) chance. But for the rest, you like the camera?

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    GH2 and this camera should not be compared, IMO this is great little cam, but GH2 is far superior to it in terms of IQ. That goes for any large(r) sensor interchangeable lens cameras. They are not meant to do same things, even though they can, but when you start using it out of its 'comfort zone' you're on your own. Hacking would only have the point if one could hack ND's into it. Otherwise, nice package. I had HMC150 for years, this is where those cameras go, smaller, lighter, cheaper. But no ND's.. it's like building XLR inputs without level knobs.

  • tommytommy

    @inqb8tr

    I started this topic, because I had the Gh2, and although everybody was so enthusiastic, it didn't work for me. (and believe me I tried everything, rigs, steadycams, tascam/ zoom audio)

    Most of what I wrote here was before the AC90 was even out. (and I only tested it for 2 days) I now have it for a year and it is great. I was the one that planted my worries that it did not have a physical ND filter. But technology changes. It has a stepless ND and it is very good. (It gets "more ND" when diafragma is being closed) You can always put on a ND filter (or variable) if you still would need it. (this would also be the case with the GH2) I also thought before the lenshood could not be removed, but it can be.

    I know a photo camera (GH2) isn't meant to do the same thing as a video camera. But everybody here on the forum is using it for video. I use both for video, and although the Gh2 has a better sensor (more film like), the AC90 is much more suitable for my needs: It is flexible, very steady, good audio, run and gun, also on automatic very good etc. Try to do that with a GH2. So perhaps it is has better IQ, but when your footage is shaky like hell, your audio sucks big, and the F stops are visible, you can't use your material at all. So it is nice, in controlled situations (studio, tripod etc)

    What I find most frustrating is: In the 'old days' I only needed 1 camera and that was fine. Nowadays, even as technology has evolved, I need to: - built a whole bunch of equipment around a dslr, record audio separate and sync in editing OR
    - work with 2 cameras at the same time. (which is what I mostly do.)

    For me this is not the 'progress' I was hoping for. In a few years I will buy a new camera, and I hope by then, there is finally a camera for me:

    A large sensor camera, (not too big) that has all the pros from a video camera, such as: very good stabilizing, perfect pro audio, flexible, good for run and gun, good automatic, preferable 1 lens to do everything. Of course I am willing to pay more for that.

  • PauloTeixeiraPauloTeixeira

    While I'm here I might as well post a couple of videos since I did get to purchase the camera long ago. Here's an un-boxing I did. I shot this with a GH2

    And here's an event that I shot at the Revere Beach in Massachusetts. I did a little bit of grading in case someone's wondering.

    Cameras such as the GH2/GH3 are good for some things and cameras such as the AC90 are good for other things. Both have strong points and weaknesses. I use both the GH2 and AC90 depending on what I'm shooting.

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    @tommy

    I was referring to GH2 for video, not stills. I totally agree that cameras like AC90, all-in-one packages (almost), are more suitable for general run and gun work, and documentary style, more less everything. That's like the basic fact. But I just wanted to point out that it is not in the same ballpark, GH2 is modular hacked beast that is pain in the ass to try and simulate camcorder workflow with. Just that. I think that your comparison (in the topic title) makes sense only cause we're here accustomed to GH2 look and thus we're able use it as a reference for other cameras image q, and such.

    So, I just want to point out that when you say

    is not the 'progress' I was hoping for

    you might be on the wrong track, since these are two different branches, and not a single timeline.

    It has a stepless ND and it is very good. (It gets "more ND" when diafragma is being closed)

    Closing the aperture does not do the same thing as using nd's. Purpose of ND is to be able to use whatever aperture and shutter angle you want, to have the creative control over your image. That's the whole point.

  • tommytommy

    You are right. But like I wrote for the GH2 I need a separate ND as well, and at least the AC90 built in "ND" works in most cases. And I still look forward to get a camera that has it both. If you find one, let me know ;-)

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    Did you notice that AC90 also has unlimited battery, it is called charger? :)

  • tommytommy

    @inqb8tr Sorry that I keep going on with this, but why I wrote the part about the ND filter, is because that it is not just 'aperture', like you might think now (as you are refering to unlimited battery when using a charger.)

    I'm not a specialist, but I did research it a bit last year. Last year Barry Green explained me about this step less ND, see below. I thought this was strange as well (like a "little bit ND") , but since I have the camera it sure works nice in practice. Perhaps you knew this already, or perhaps Barry is not correct, but I just wanted to let you know (and other people that might consider the camera)

    Barry Green wrote me about ND: The system uses zero ND filtration when the iris is set between f/1.5 to f/2.8. If you "stop down" the lens past f/2.8, the iris doesn't actually change at all. The system adds a little bit of ND filter to make the same exposure as if you'd actually stopped down the iris. It brings in more and more ND until you hit f/6.4 when the iris display reads out f/6.4, it's actually f/2.8 plus all the ND filter the camera can deliver. If you stop the iris down any further, it actually starts closing the iris again.

    This has two massive benefits: 1) It delivers seamless exposure changes 2) It keeps the iris in the "sweet spot" for as long as possible, avoiding the crippling issues of diffraction. If they'd gone with true iris changes, diffraction would start mushing up the image as early as f/4 (and, in the red channel, as early as f/2.8!) By the time you got to f/11, the image would be a total mush of soft, fuzzy, out-of-focus nothingness. But by doing it this way, they avoid diffraction entirely down to about f/10. F/8 is pretty much diffraction-free. It's really clever engineering to avoid the serious side effects that could occur, from using such a small chip.

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    It's still not a proper ND, but it is true that I didn't get what you were trying to say. Thanks for clarifying. That's some weird sh*t going on in there.

  • PauloTeixeiraPauloTeixeira

    The AC90 has been updated to AC90A and the good news is that AC90 users can download the firmware update. Their are some extra features such as having more control over the white balance. http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=709006&modelNo=Content06162014051531443&surfModel=Content06162014051531443 http://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main/soft/upgac90_e.htm

    Anyway, here's a video I did while in Las Vegas attending NAB. Basically me walking around one night on the strip with the AC90. That was a ton of walking and if you ever been their, you'd know how awkward it is to walk around. Many times you have to go through a bunch of hoops just to cross the street and sometimes you have to go though buildings.

  • PauloTeixeiraPauloTeixeira

    World Naked Bike Ride 2014 - Boston edition

    This is part 1. Part 2 is also on my channel but theirs nudity on it so I wont post that here. The link to that video is also in the description underneath this video.

    It was impossible to get clear shots at this location becasue of how dark it was. I shot it in 30p with a shutter of 30. Everything else fully automatic. I could have done frame rate of 24 and a shutter of 24 but I figured with me sometimes swinging the camera around, that might not be a good idea. If only this was held during the day!

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @PauloTeixeira

    Next time get Sony A7s :-)

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