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Official GH3 deficiencies and whines topic
  • 45 Replies sorted by
  • PsycoPsyco

    I really don't think the GH3 is the upgrade we were waiting for - it looks much like Canon-tactic (charge big bugs for less). At least for me its not worth spending that much money on minor changes (1080p50) and some important steps backwards (crop!).

    I don't really care about sound in/out, bigger battery, faster AF,... as all this can easily be done (and better) with some extra gear (see all this threads about powering GH2, sound recording, rigs,... on this forum). If you are serious with film making, you would go that route anyway. For me, a camera is about sensor, codec and data storage. And here the GH3 lacks the needed upgrades:

    1) No 100/120fps. 50/60p is nice, but if I want slow motion, 50/60 is often just not enough, but 100/120 would do (the rest can be done by software like twixtor). So I will have to get another camera for those shoots anyway - there is no point in switching form GH2 to GH3.

    2) No 4:2:2, no colour porfiles. Absolutely no upgrade here - having the GH2 with the various patches that even start to mimic some colour profiles... no need to get a GH3.

    3) Still only one cardslot. Using two cards like a raid and writing data parallel to both would give us a lot more bandwidth headroom with high bitrates. Also, no upgrade here.

    If the GH3 is hacked and the price down to 800 EUR I might think about getting one (but that will be somewhere in the future and maybe we will have other options by then).

  • goannagoanna

    +1 re wait and see.

  • meemee

    @Astro for me there was a drastic improvement the very first time I hacked my GH2. The stock camera was nothing to cough at, but moire was heavy around my neighborhood where fences and telephone wires seem to be breeding and weaving a tapestry across the sky (Tokyo). I have seen the earlier posts saying there is no difference and the challenges to spot the difference, though I can usually spot the difference regardless of scene (especially with high end hacks) the scenes that were posted seemed to always be subject matter that the camera excelled in with or without the hack, ie static shots or shots without too much moving details, vertical lines, crisscrosses, etc..

  • goannagoanna

    The way some of you guys talk, I get the creepy feeling of the GH3 being an Emperor's New Clothes scenario! (Perish the thought...)

  • meemee

    I think the sensor more than anything is what has peoples panties in a bunch, and I get that part. The unknown, and a bit of WTF. I do have a wait and see attitude, but feel their is such a thing as healthy complaints since Panasonic maybe just wading in and seeing how much they can save on sensors before pissing off their core users. Maybe they have a truck load of GH5 sensors on standby just in case they have gone too far. You may say that I'm a dreamer.... But It may explain why there were so few complete GH5's at Photokina.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    No matter what the cause is, I really hope things are better either by release (moire/aliasing/detail) or with the next model (MAR sensor). If they don't fix it until the next model after this one, then I may pass on the GH3.

    But it really is still too early to tell.

  • goannagoanna

    @thepalalias

    With you on that one.

    Frankly, although I take some pride on getting the right look to my work, I'm not much of a judge of technology and am prepared to trust others' testing and recommendations.

    I'll probably be following the emerging consensus of this forum. Whatever seems to be working for people around 6 months to a year from now, I'll probably follow.

  • AstroAstro

    @thepalalias Quote If they don't fix it until the next model after this one, then I may pass on the GH3. But it really is still too early to tell.

    Yep...Agreed, the thing is they brought in 50/60p, interestingly I have that on my old TM700, so that is not exactly revolutionary. Some say the video quality looks much better than the GH2, others say it is not as good...point being that these days for most of us there has to be a compelling reason to upgrade, peoples spending habits are more conservative in general these days (according to polls). So for someone to shell out an extra $1200 for a camera body and possibly more for a new weather sealed lens, then theres the optional Zacuto rigs and stuff.

    Anyway to entice a lot of people to buy the GH3...then Panansonic has to pull a pretty big rabbit out of the hat, and I just dont know wether they have...Time will tell. There will always be those that will jump in and buy because they like what they hear, but that may not be enough, a lot of people that were waiting are already sitting on the fence or decided against.

    There are a lot of gains... (a lot of those in the build of the camera...more solid etc..) Better colors, 1 stop or so more DR, better noise pattern, better low light.

    And losses... Arguably softer image, more moire, aliasing, no more MAS yada yada...

    For me anyway that adds up to "I dunno..maybe later, maybe never" LOL!! I am certainly not passionate about it, put it that way. I hope the release version is better. Cheers

  • dream_beamdream_beam

    Everything said above makes me just stop investing in MFT lenses for some period of time. I see no reasons buying lenses for bodies where the most important part (sensor) lacks major improvements.

    Vitaly and others made huge efforts to bring GHx series from shadow to life. My GH2 is a fantastic camera. However, there would not be a hack for moire and aliasing of GH3's sensor.

    'Hybrid' shooting of both video and photos is a grave marketing mistake as well, I guess. While I like photos out of GH2 I prefer to capture stills with a separate dedicated photo camera.

    Despite of all this I am still optimistic on Gxx series community here. There are many other hackable Lumix bodies of interest.

    The only positive development about new sensors is higher dynamic range. The question is open how many stops might be added. Unless moire and aliasing are fixed I prefer to skip GH3. The new body price is not justified, sorry Panasonic.

    If GH4 is made with a lack of care about sensor again then it might be a clear indication that MFT era is probaby due to dusk.

  • KihlianKihlian

    I´ll find that 120fps (or even 240 fps) was a must have and so 4:2:2 or 10 bit in Camera to name it a Hybrid. Now we have rumours about that Panasonic is thinking to go FF, that means the MFT lenses will become useless, though I like the 2x crop it gives the just DOF, FF for video gives to much DOF sometimes or we just need a really good follow focus. However I´m with @dream_beam I stop investing in MFT lenses for now, it could be that they will become valueless. Wait also to see what Samsung will bring with the new NX-R that will be Android based and other companies like Sony. I could invest in so many on other stuff to improve my shoots like a jib.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Now we have rumours about that Panasonic is thinking to go FF, that means the MFT lenses will become useless,

    LOL :-)

    I find it utterly stupid to talk about uncertain reply of some manager made in some strange interview.
    Pentax hinted that they'll make FF body many years ago. Still nothing :-) Same bunch of strange guys with lenses abandonement idea. Same result as always :_)

    Most Panasonic lenses are among ones made with modern design approach. Silent, fast contrast AF oriented.

  • brianlucebrianluce

    LOL :-) I find it utterly stupid to talk about uncertain reply of some manager made in some strange interview.

    Don't be so confident, I have heard rumors that Panasonic is dumping the whole m43 format and returning to 35mm film!

  • KihlianKihlian

    Better that way.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I have heard rumors that Panasonic is dumping the whole m43 format and returning to 35mm film!

    Yes, I also heard that they'll supply two rolls with each camera (as you can't get film otherwise), and to print them you'll need to send them to Japan office. But it is no biggie for me, as DR and reliability are most important.

  • dream_beamdream_beam

    I agree with @Vitaliy_Kiselev in respect of quality of Panasonic modern lenses. Out of two MFT lenses that I own two are made by Panasonic (14-140 & 25 1.4) and I am not going to sell them. All other lenses used by me with GH2 body are connected via MFT adapters. I was about to buy some additional MFT lenses made by Panasonic or Olympus or Nokton, however, I prefer now to wait and see how things are developed on GH3 and further Lumix bodies. So far GH3' sensor is seen as a step back by reviewers. Let's wait for real life tests of GH3. It may be better than it is being commented nowadays. Still prefer to refrain from buying additional MFT from now on. The stuff is not cheap at all. It is not about FF by Panasonic or any other producer either. While mirrorless FF is discussed widely, it is true that it will take time to come in order not to interfere with sales of many other MFT and APC-S optimized lenses.

  • GeraldGerald

    I think the decision of ZEISS, to produce lenses with mft-mount, has certainly been done on arrangements with panasonics for their plans for the future of that mount. So don't panic that way ;-)

    Again panasonic changes so much, that i think if a company with a much straighter product line, will be cheaper to me. 4 akkus for my GH1 become obsolete when GH2 came. Now i should threw away 7xGH2 akkus? Or the well known usabilaty! On GH1 i had the red record button on the back. It took several shooting till i learned to look onto top for starting. Now i do have to revise? To get the desired colour out of the cam, did take a lot of testing and shooting. The new sensor and something else will not be like GH1 or GH2 either. I saw a Foto of GH2 and GH3 on a billiard table. The colours from the table, looked horrible on the promised oled display. The GH2 display was not perfect, but very much closer to the original. And if i would like to get a sony-look, i would probably buy one.

    Maybe Panasonic will update their AF101 to 201 or similar soon. If this will get a panasonic sensor again, and some blackmagic features, maybe a bit cheaper than the 101, i think i will forget the GH3 soon.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    To those hesitating to keep investing in MFT lenses: it's still the best mount for the BMCC and your current GH2, if you buy manual ones.

    I would simply hold off on buying electronic MFT if having an upgrade path is your concern until Panasonic delivers a model you are happier with. :)

  • goannagoanna

    @thepalalias

    MFT lenses: it's still the best mount for the BMCC

    Can you tell me which advantages besides just being able to re-use the MFT lenses?* As far as I see, they seem to be supported only manually.

    BMD say: Passive Micro Four Thirds mount for manually operated lens with manual iris control. Compatible with most third party MFT adapters for other lens mounts such as PL etc.

    *Re-using MFT lenses is reason enough! Each announcement of a camera's support for MFT lenses reassures me that my own collection will last me a while longer.

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    @goanna Exactly. That is the advantage. That is also why I said "I would simply hold off on buying electronic MFT if having an upgrade path is your concern until Panasonic delivers a model you are happier with. :)"

    In other words, if you need electronic MFT, it is not helpful at this point. But there is a much wider range of glass that can adapted to MFT without adding glass than for EF. Meanwhile, EF still works on the BMCC with an MFT mount.

    So why would you choose a narrower selection of lenses for the same product (including the limitations on wide-angle that go along with have a mount designed for a larger sensor) when you could get a more flexible mount for the same price?

    Anyway, that's not really about the GH3 - but my point is that MFT is still being supported on other cameras, just more widely so if it is fully manual/not electronic.

  • goannagoanna

    I'd like to take a broader view of this.

    Like a few manufacturers, BMD have made the move of showing their camera well before full production. Among lots of advantages, they're able to run the idea up the flag-pole and see how the product appeals to prospective buyers. They'll have kept watch on pre-orders.

    Now, I'm just guessing that if we were to ask economists whether we are in good times for adventurous new technology or in tricky times where buyers are wary and competition can come quick and fast, they'd choose the tricky times option.

    BMD might just have looked at the numbers with EF lenses, done a risk analysis, done the numbers again with a possible MFT lens option, and found MF3 would put the company in a safer position. Chances are their bank and investors might have leaned on them at some point. (Hey, a roll-out like this and it's a long time between drinks, cash-wise!)

    Back to Panasonic, they are indeed a prosumer/consumer brand with a strong reputation. They aren't likely to produce a vaporware camera (like some others I could mention), intended to source funds or deter other manufacturers who'd had plans to build something else with the same target market in mind.

    But they'll be subject to today's market forces. They'll have had to rationalise resources (reduce manufacturing costs by going with a Sony sensor), choose a sweet point technologically, strategically and in pricing. I'd guess that within Panasonic R&D there could be some tears being shed because of some much-loved developing camera innovations which just had to go once the bean-counters had had their say.

    That big GH3 body might be a safe size. (Make a body too tight around its components inside and you might have painted yourself into a corner).

    No doubt, Panasonic will be busy assembling GH3s already. But like BMD's pre-release, running news of the forthcoming GH3 up the flagpole will test market interest.

    The pre-order numbers: might they be looking, on a scale from:

    • 0 (Stop the production lines) ? Through to
    • 10: (Purchase the world supply of Sony chips, give the extra factories the OK signal)?

              |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |      |

              0                                                             10

    Maybe there's an online poll somewhere. Even here in, "Crisis, what crisis?" Australia I'll be ticking the GH3 "wait and see" box, just like my current clients are doing with my own services.

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