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US: California, state of borrowed prosperity
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  • There are some ballot measures in November that will attempt to deal with this mess. This information is no secret. Several small cities here of already gone bankrupt.

  • @brianluce

    Last time I checked, previous measures did not help :-)

    As for information - it is official from California State Controller, of course it is no secret.

  • Last time I checked, previous measures did not help :-)

    So since previous measures didn't work we conclude future measures won't work?

  • So since previous measures didn't work we conclude future measures won't work?

    Yep. Because they are similar in nature.

  • Yep. Because they are similar in nature.

    Actually they're not. Not by a long shot. The real question is the likelihood of the measures passing and fiscal impact.

  • @brianluce

    OK, can you do comparison and show all differencies for us?

  • OK, can you do comparison and show all differencies for us?

    There's nothing to compare. 2012's ballot measures are arguably unprecedented. There was nothing like them in 2010 or 2008. Or even before that. You've got to back to 1978 IMO.

  • Hmm. Anyway.

    Can you tell us, in detail, about previous measures and new ones. And show the difference, not in values, but in nature.

  • Can you tell us, in detail, about previous measures and new ones. And show the difference, not in values, but in nature.

    Sure. Take a look ballot history. You won't find many tax increases. This time around there are three big ones.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_California_ballot_propositions_2000%E2%80%932009

  • You mean this shit as amazing new measures that will save California?

    November 6, 2012

    Safe, Clean, and Reliable Water Supply Act of 2012 (pushed from November 2010 to November 2012).[1]

    • 30 - Increases income and sales taxes temporarily for education and public safety funding.[2]
    • 31 - Constitutional amendment changing responsibilities of local governments, the Legislature and the Governor in regards to the state budget.[3]
    • 32 - Prohibits Union and Corporate using payroll-deducted funds for political purposes, as well as to politicians or their political action committees.[4]
    • 33 - Changes current law to allow insurance companies to set prices based on whether the driver previously carried auto insurance with any insurance company.[5]
    • 34 - Repeals the death penalty.[6]
    • 35 - Imposes higher penalties on human trafficking.[7]
    • 36 - Revises three strikes law to impose life sentence only when new felony conviction is serious or violent.[8]
    • 37 - Requires labeling on raw or processed food offered for sale to consumers if made from plants or animals with genetic material changed in specified ways.[9]
    • 38 - Increases income taxes for education and early childhood programs.[10]
    • 39 - Requires multistate businesses to calculate their California income tax liability based on the percentage of their sales in California and allocates potential revenue to create energy efficient and clean jobs.[11]
    • 40 - Redistricting of State Senate districts.[12]
  • Yes, repealing the death penalty will save California.

    And also, increasing tax revenue will allow schools to stay open and cops to stay on the street. For people in the developed world, these things matter.

  • Yes, repealing the death penalty will save California.

    And I always wondered what can save California, now I know. :-)

    And also, increasing tax revenue

    Personal Income Tax - 6,954,740 (this is one thing that increased slightly in last year, but as guys said, mainly because few IPOs).

    Are you intending to almost triple all taxes?

  • Are you intending to almost triple all taxes?

    Vitaliy, I'm not nearly as powerful as you imagine me to be :D

  • @brianluce Here on the other side of the country where we've managed to keep the schools open without tripling taxes, we'll be watching to see how those measures work out. Aside from giving a few of our idiot politicians bad ideas so we have to throw them out...California hasn't exactly set a good example so far.

  • @peternap Who said anything about tripling taxes? I think you have little idea about what's behind CA budget problems. So saying "California hasn't exactly set a good example so far" has little credibility.

  • I think you have little idea about what's behind CA budget problems.

    I think same can be said about all California officials who make decisions :-)

  • @subco Ah. second hand information from "Knowing several people who work for the state". Great. More informed opinion for the topic.

  • @brianluce Why don't you give some "Credible" information about how California will be saved? (Other than a list of referendums)

  • @peternap

    Why don't you give some "Credible" information about how California will be saved? (Other than a list of referendums)

    I said there are ballot measures attempting to deal with the fiscal crisis. They're trying to get more money. I never said it would or wouldn't save the state or that the state even needs saving. California is still the 8th largest economy in the world, and we've got the world's best Universities and highest level of innovation.

  • And the second worst government in the country, highest number of drug users, worst highway system, entire cities known best for deviant lifestyles, rampant illegal alien traffic and yes, it needs saving. Whether it deserves it is highly debatable. It seems the pot growers will be the salvation of the state if the Feds don't shut them down first,

  • And the second worst government in the country, highest number of drug users, worst highway system, entire cities known best for deviant lifestyles, rampant illegal alien traffic and yes, it needs saving. Whether it deserves it is highly debatable. It seems the pot growers will be the salvation of the state if the Feds don't shut them down first

    Stop making up facts to support your hyperbole. It's obvious you are completely uninformed on the issue. http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/drug-use-across-the-united-states-or-rhode-island-needs-more-rehab/

  • @subco I'm not in denial. But there's a lot of gratuitous California bashing here from people who have zero idea about what's going on. The problems in CA are deep and profound, I don't deny that. And I agree, part of the issue is government spending on itself. For example, a major culprit is the pensions of State employees. They're way too generous. That doesn't mean the job of CHP is a "make work job" or that the County ER Doc is a 47% ing parasite. It just means reform is needed. The good news is these things are solvable -- though not overnight. In fact, reforming pensions is not really that hard. The rub is that it can take 5 years or more to get the dividend.

    Best ever sucker bet is to count out California. We're the guys who invent stuff.

  • @brianluce

    How about provide us data about private and public pensions payments required in next 20 years in California?

    I just asking this because you seems to see only one side of the problem. Ignoring poor private funds who are also faced with treasures rates that must be kept low to keep USA alive for lightly longer.

    Greece also cutted pensions, but as consequence real people lost their real jobs (as they got money from this old farts), and situation just turned worse.

    We're the guys who invent stuff.

    How about get Jobs or Wozniak biographies and compare California in their childhood to current one.
    And you'll get instant answer that problem with "inventing" today is severe.

  • @Vitaliy

    How about provide us data about private and public pensions payments required in next 20 years in California?

    Honestly, this is an issue with bi-partisan agreement. California Public Servants have had a sweetheart deal for generations with regards to pensions and health benefits. They all know it has to change and it will change. And as I've said, it's totally doable.

    How about get Jobs or Wozniak biographies and compare California in their childhood to current one. And you'll get instant answer that problem with "inventing" today is severe.

    Ha! I know this bugs you. Wishful thinking won't save you though. We're Hollywood and you aren't. DEAL WITH IT!!!! :D

  • Come on guys... we all know the answer to fixing any problem is to be less "racist", completely open the borders, and talk about how we don't like Fox News.