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Canon Cinema EOS C100 camera topic
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  • The one thing that this NEW realm of DSLR inspired video cams has done is totally mess up the Major Company's pricing conventions. They used to have things fairly organized with clear price point competition but this field is so wide open and the approaches to these cameras are so different that they can't really produce direct competitors for these cameras and a price/feature parity from maker to maker.

    We've been left to try and make comparisons, but there is not a clear 5DMk3 vs. D800 direct comparison. Those 2 cameras represent a clear niche and are direct competitors as are the other DSLR's in the lines. It's gonna take a good while longer before we see these companies go directly at each other in a way that is clear from model to model. It's a mess right now.

  • It's a shame Canon keeps pricing their products so high. For that price you think it would at least have 4:2:2 and higher fps, maybe if the C300 and C500 didn't exist.

  • @MarkV I did take a look at specifications and it seems to be the same sensor of C300. TV broadcast is heavily compressed, bluray is heavily compressed, internet is heavily compressed, all in h264 or mpeg2, so shoot in avchd 24Mbps 420 is not a big problem for these kind of delivery (you can use an intermediate codec 422 10 bit for editing). If you are thinking of a feature film in DCP for theater release so you should take a look at a better camera (better in camera codec), but people are doing indie films with GH2 and even T3i, so why not with C100 ? The big problem is not the codec, the big problem is the overprice.

  • @RatLabProductions

    I'm not being snide, or mean-spirited, but the Magic Cam will be the new GH2 in terms of how it's compared to every single camera out there. If you don't like that, you may want to take a break from forums and blogs for a year or so. lol

    Between GH3 and Magic Cam, you won't be able to release anything without getting flack if it's not equal to or greater-than.

  • @RatLabProductions on what sort of productions would you choose this camera over either a Sony FS700, KineRAW, or BMCC? I agree that overarching one-on-one comparisons are problematic, but my point was that I can't think of any application that one of those cameras won't do better than this.

    • Run-and-gun: FS700.
    • Sports: FS700.
    • Documentary: FS700.
    • Corporate work: FS700, KineRAW or BMCC.
    • Narrative work: KineRAW or BMCC.
    • Music: KineRAW or BMCC.
    • Best bang-for-buck: BMCC.

    I can't think of anything where I'd prefer this Canon P.O.S, based on the specs. Of course specs only tell part of the story. If it turns out that the C100 has outstanding lowlight performance (which it may), then there would be an application for it, as overpriced as it may be.

  • @Sangye , at first that was what I thought. But if really the price is more like $ 6k than 8k then it changes a lot of thing. It becomes much more a competitor to the Fs100 than the Fs700 and much better spec than it with built in ND, peaking, waveform, ergonomic, build quality etc. In fact taking your list above I would say that it would be less specialized than the fs700 and bmcc, but a better all rounder. One thing makes a big difference is the Canon 12 stop log format compared to the fs700 (until now don't really know its DR). The low light against the BMCC. For event work use the internal codec avchd 24 mbit, that we all know is quite good and secondly add a $ 300 hyperdeck to shoot 422 dnxhd for more quality job. I never thought I would write this on the still overprice Canon cinema line, but at $ 6k for many shooter it might be the very good camera.

  • @danyyyel

    My thoughts exactly. I shoot small TV shows and the C100 looks like a perfect solution for what I'm doing. Especially with the 6K price.

    I never thought I would ever find myself defending a Canon product but today was one of those days... it felt weird.

    For my personal use the GH3 might just be the ticket but for any company looking at shooting with the 5D3 (one company I know was about to order 4 till this morning) at 4K the C100 at 6K seems like a no brainer and an obvious choice over the FS100 for those of us who don't shoot 60p anyway.

  • The more I think about it, I can understand how this actually would be a nice camera. First off, it won't be $8000, it will likely be a couple thousand less. Its got xlr inputs, low rolling shutter, awesome design, you can use stabilized canon lenses with it (HUGE for event stuff), great sensor (clean in low light and not huge crop), and yes MXF would be preferred, but AVCHD is fine honestly. With a clean output thru HDMI I can see this working well. Use the AVCHD when you need speed, and don't care about super high quality, and then you've got low file sizes.

    I could care less about raw honestly. Just don't want to deal with those file sizes and the extra time it takes for that workflow.

    People said the same thing about the canon when it first came out, that it was wayyy overpriced, but when you see the images that comes from it, and the ease of use/convenience, I think its worth its money.

  • In fact, everything could change again with the gh3 if all the rumors are true. I don't think it will equal the C100 in low light, but perhaps the wide DR sensor could get close or better the C-log. But I read on philip bloom site that the camera has no 50/60p even in 720p, he himseld is complaining about that. I think that if this is the case, Canon is really really foolish. Entry level dslr/mirror less will be coming with it at 1080p and below $ 1000. We are in the slow-mo era as we were in the super shallow dof one. So no 50/60p even at 720p is very very bad.

  • Canon must get near the FS100's street price to be competitive. I'll be all over it :)

  • Even a 'couple thousand less' is still too much. You have to be kidding me. 5K list - 4.25k street price then MAYBE.

  • @danyyyel

    PB Always often has some gripes about Canon gear - then mysteriously he has a glowing review a week later :-). I can;t wait to see all the flock saying thanks PB , your endorsement justifies my overpaying for the C100. LOL

  • The only real problem with this camera is its price. It has all the basics for a production mini beast, its just that its a little late in the market. We have the quality and rage of specs exept for the XLR and bette casing in the GH2.

    The alloy casing, and the extra buttons dont go up to the price, and its real. If they cut in half the price maybe, but hey, its a Canon C gamma camera, so it wont. At this point i think they only made it to have the low gama of cinema cameras, but maintaining the top price for psicological aspect.

    Its no wonder machine, as for 2012 its pretty standard, and it doesnt do 60p WTF! i dont understand.

  • Canon should have a new company motto: "None of us, are as stupid as all of us!!"

  • People have been talking about 8bit 4:2:0, but from Canon USA link, it says 4:2:2... http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/cinema_eos_cameras/eos_c100#Specifications

    but still no mentioning about the HDMI output...

  • @mobileavatar

    It uses AVCHD file structure like GH2, so no way it can be 4:2:2. Most probably they use such small trick , as it can be only HDMI signal specs.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev, thanks for the clarification. If it's not a typo, then it's definitely a marketing trick... very deceiving.

  • One thing I found interesting about the C100 was that it is claimed to have 12 stops of DR at all ISOs including 20,000. How is that even possible?

    image

  • Last 10 progs Ive mixed for various companies (Sky Nat Geo Discovery BBC etc) have all been shot on C300 - the telly guys seems to like the C line of cameras.

  • gotta say, im not having any regrets buying a c100. i still do have a bmc on order but plan to sell it.

    the c100 is just ergonomically superior to any of its competitors. and is also top tier in the low light department.

    the codec suits many of my needs, and i plan to get a ninja2 for other needs.

    every camera has +/-, this one just works for me in so many more ways than the BMC could.

    now, if magic lantern has the possibility of crackin it and getting 4:2:2 in camera, it'll be a super win ;)

  • Yeah, its entertaining to look back at this thread. The C100 is pretty damn popular. I can't remember how many time I've been asked by potential clients if I had a C300 or access to one over the past year, I'm almost ready to buy a C100 just to say "well sure, but let me explain". I've been very resistant to the Canon thing for a long time, but the C100 is so easy to justify from a business standpoint. Most importantly, you can log on just about anywhere, whip out the cc and buy one this very moment.

  • I have to say it is surprising how much of a turnaround there's been re: opinions of the C100. If I had a few spare thousand kicking around it would be camera I'd pick up.