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Black Magic: Official $1,995 raw cinema camera topic, series 2
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  • nomadnomad

    Well, I tried some Zeiss Contax lenses with a known good adapter on the BMCC. They were spot on with focus marks, while the same lenses go a bit past infinity on a Canon.

    But we can't have it all, and it doesn't matter that much if you use a FF with own marks. Flange distance is most critical on the wide end, and many will want the 11-16mm to have something wide. The Sigma is slower and doesn't have constant aperture.

    I think I can live with the fix.

  • rockroadpixrockroadpix

    @nomad - not true, there is a Sigma 10-20 with constant ap. - f3.5. I have it and it is a great lens.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/633609-REG/Sigma_202101_10_20mm_f_3_5.html

  • johnbrawleyjohnbrawley

    @nomad

    right and so NOW that they have changed their FFD, that Zeiss lens most likely WON"T be accurate. Infinity will hit before the mark on the lens.

    jb

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    Why can't focus peaking reduce this issue? Being that it's a feature available.

  • hunterhunter

    Here's to hoping the mft mount doesn't require this same adjustment... it would be nice to be able to trust the accuracy of the marks on our cine lenses in PL.

  • johnbrawleyjohnbrawley

    @GravitateMediaGroup

    It's a different issue. Focus peaking tells you if something is in or out of focus.

    Having the right FFD, determines if a lens can hit focus at it's furthermost distance (infinity) and then how the witness marks or distance scales on the lens line up for accuracy.

    Ideally, a lens will be set to hit infinity when the little mark says it's focused to infinity on the lens and at the correct FFD on the camera, which in this case is 44mm.

    As BMD have discovered, stills lenses lenses aren't that accurately calibrated for both their distance markings and their FFD. Faster wide angle lenses tend to show this up the most and the Tokina seems to have the worst tolerance (judging by the number of FFD issues that are associated with this lens on other cameras including Canon)

    jb

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @johnbrawley

    And the black sun dot? What created this issue? I'm guessing this has been talked about on 10 other forums by now?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

  • bannedindvbannedindv

    @hunter - that's where a shimmable PL mount like the Hot Rod Cameras tuner kit comes into play.

  • shianshian

    If I weren't whacked out of my head on cold medecine, I probably wouldn't post this. BUT since I am - here we go.

    Now that I've shot with one, and played with the footage in post.

    Here are my thoughts:

    The jello is horrible... HORRIBLE. That's gotta change. They did fix many of my gripes with the latest firmware release in terms of iris control. The Focus peaking is nice. The shadow response is kinda weak. I think it should come with a sticker that says, "NEVER UNDEREXPOSE YOUR SHADOWS WITH THIS CAMERA.....EVER." Meter you scene, make sure the highlights will fit within 11-12 stops or so, and let them blow, cuz you can get them back... but you're not gettin' your shadows back, brutha... no way. BTW a good and accurate False Color function would help with this.

    Verdict: If on a tripod or an extremely steady hand held rig, it's a nice camera. It won't get my money, but there are many worse options out there in this price range.

    In Post: I'm curious why Resolve doesn't have as comprehensive an interpretation dialog as AE. Cuz the exposure slider alone ain't cuttin' it. I want CONTROL. I haven't updated to the new version of resolve (9.1 i think it is) to see if they've remedied this yet, but I'd like to have independent control over everything stored in the DNG - the highlights, shadows, exposure, contrast, and brightness. Everything else is already there; color temp, etc.

    And as a bonus: Just some thoughts and predictions that I took a lot of heat for last year before the release.

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/63170#Comment_63170

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/69912#Comment_69912

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @shian

    about the jello, I VERY strongly agree. When turning the camera on the first 30 seconds of using it, I gave it a slight wiggle and quick pan, and couldn't believe what I was seeing.

    and the false color, what would this mean exactly? like...showing an idea of what the colors we are shooting really are?

    I haven't tested on getting more exposure boost from resolve, but would making a few nodes and boost exposure on each help, or no? i am in NO way a resolve guru, I've only been experimenting with it the past month and it's a tricky tool for sure, but doesn't seem like it will take too long to get the hang of.

  • OedipaxOedipax

    @GravitateMediaGroup, false color is a feature on some cameras/monitors that maps exposure information over the top of the image in the form of color overlays. This way you can see while looking at the image what areas are over/under/properly exposed and identify problems in a different way than looking at zebras or a histogram.

  • AriaAria

    BMC isn't a perfect Video camera and won't be for everyone. They seem to have sacrificed a lot of pure video centric features in order to keep the price down. It's a box that takes in light. Pure and simple. Some can accept that and some can't. IMO From what i've seen of the BEST BMC footage, NONE of the cameras in it's price range look anything like it. For me personally the final product is the biggest issue! It's simple. Don't shake the camera around like a salt shaker and Expose the damn thing to the right and I see very few problems. The damn thing looks gorgeous when used properly. From what i've seen of it's exactly the look i'm looking for. It's just not the most ergonomic or fully functional video camera out there.

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @aria

    I agree, it has it's issues, but the image is undeniable, and untouchable by any camera in that price range. IMO also

  • L1N3ARXL1N3ARX

    Well I've had it for about a week now... and I can safely say that I'm in love. Didn't think I could love a camera... but I do. It's kind of one of those things where you have to use it and see your own footage to really get into it. On paper... there's quite a few limitations and imperfections and is certainly not everyone's cup of tea.

    If you're a hands on person, and like to "craft" the image into exactly what you want then this is the camera to use. The log footage simply transforms into whatever it is you want it to be with simple grading... it really is amazing. Anyhow... just a few simple tests trying out the camera.

  • AriaAria

    UGH! @L1N3ARX I am so jealous right now. That is the look i've fallen in love with. Not so much one look but being able to really mold it into just about any look you want but with a convincing level of quality to he image. Even just the ProRes! It's just gorgeous IMO.

  • dclouddcloud

    i have mine for 2 months now. still surprises me on how good it looks on lowlight

    heres something i dislike though, accidentally touching the screen brings up the slate menu. annoying.

  • nomadnomad

    It is remarkably good in low-light for it's sensor size. It has a fantastic DR for the price.

    It has massive "jello" and it can show massive chroma moiré. I don't really get why they omitted the OLPF, it has enough photocells to get close to a RED shooting at 3K HD, which has conservative filtering, hardly ever shows moiré and resolves HDTV just fine, is a bit worse in low-light, BTW, but has far less jello.

    The only reason for omission of the OLPF I can imagine is cost. So, some folks will stick Mosaic filters into their BMCCs for about 400 bucks not to be bitten by moiré on a clients shirt or the like.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    @nomad why would the moire be worse to fix with a BMCC than it is with any EOS? It should be better, albeit annoying of course, because it won't have mosquito noise and all kinds of other nastiness mixed in with the moire. It's pretty trivial to get rid of it with 7D footage, I know from experience.

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    what settings are you guys using for low light? because I've had some pretty noisy footage I guess from over cranking. I'm guessing you guys are shooting it somewhat dark and then boosting in post?

  • RRRRRRRR

    Jello is no worse than with the gh2, I reiterate what I said before, after my first shoot with the cam. I had 135mm for one shot on a monopod and it was barely useable. Functionality could be better. Shian and many others touch upon that. A simple histogram would do it for me.

    I´d like a simple button / screen lock to be added (this would be a good feature for most cams!). I accidentally recorded a few mins of raw in a shoulder bag when moving between angles. A longer "take" and it could have fucked the day.

    Pictures are absolutely beautiful!

  • nomadnomad

    Jello is a problem with the GH2 sometimes as well.

    But regarding moiré I'm complaining why I need at fix at all? This is called a cine camera, it has no reason to respect different resolutions like a photographic/double duty camera. Plus, the GH2 has less chroma moiré, just about equal luma.

  • RRRRRRRR

    I don´t say jello can´t be a problem but I work around it. I try to avoid cameras which are jello sensitive for projects or shots which require something else.

    I don´t mind the lack of LPF. Yet at least. (I haven´t been shooting any brick walls) I like to have good 1:1 resolution w/o sharpening and it´s very difficult to achieve that with a LPF..

    I really, really want the MFT version though!

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    @nomad It's a cine camera in function. You could pay 4X as much for a Canon "cine" camera and get line skipping, chroma sub-sampling and compression, depending on mode, or some combination of all of the above. Maybe Red and Alexa will give you moire-free recording.

  • AriaAria

    The BMC is extremely sharp and I wonder if anyone has tried using a Pro-Mist filter on it to see if that tamed Moire. I would guess that once the camera is shipping in higher numbers that Mosaic will likely make a filter for it.

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