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BlackMagic: Official $2,995 raw cinema camera topic
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  • HHLHHL

    Here's the thing for me. This camera is a true blue category creator. So...NO QUESTION, there will be problems, shortcomings, work arounds, etc.

    Yes, it won't be as good as the FS100 in low light.
    It doesn't have frame rates like the FS700.
    It doesn't have the super el-cheap-o price range of the GH2 (with disproportionately high IQ).
    It doesn't have the sensor size of the 5d.
    It doesn't have the auto focus features of the EX3. Its file sizes will be HUGE Its DR won't be the same as the ALEXA

    But make no mistake: THIS IS A CATEGORY CREATOR. RAW video for less than $3K.

    For that, I will be a Black Magic Cam fan for life! I feel like a MUCH better question, is WHO WILL FOLLOW SUIT and enter the RAW video $3K market?

    KineRAW is on their way.
    DBolex hopes to enter the fray.
    Who else is game? (Will any of the big 3 join the party?)

    I'm so thankful for BlackMagic, not matter the probs with THIS implementation because they have changed the expectations of the consumer. (Just like we all always knew.....RAW video could be done for less than 5K!!!) Cheers Peeps! Thanks Black Magic!

  • sammysammy

    For me its the 13 stops of DR for $3k more than the Raw ..Hope its 13 usable stops when the when the dust settles ..The closest thing we have to that would be the F3 with Slog at 4-5 times the price ..

  • HHLHHL

    @sammy. 13 stops of usable range would be delicious for sure. And I think there are many other things that make it great, I'm just saying that I hope we can see it for what it is: a new category. I new level of expectation for us, the customers. Cheers sammy!

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Jem about this camera (from their event)

    http://www.thec47.com/gearbox/may-24th.html

  • pvjamespvjames

    I'm surprised they are still keeping close to their release date. Month & half isn't long at all. Hope they iron out everything.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Month & half isn't long at all. Hope they iron out everything.

    They plan to ship only very small amount on July 30 :-)

  • nyvznyvz

    Uncompressed RAW just seems extremely impractical for most workflows that fall within the price bracket of this camera... >100MBps? It's hard enough keeping up with RED downloads at ~36MBps. I tend to think that while uncompressed CinemaDNG is a nice option, most people might as well forget about it since 99.9% of the time this camera will only be used for recording directly to prores.

  • strancalistrancali

    What about 10 BMC owners pitch in and buy one ($300 per person) for Vitaliy to hack it and give us 120fps??? I'm down if he thinks it can be done.

  • soundgh2soundgh2

    Interestingly my multi channel (UK - SKY BBC ITV CH4 5 Sky etc) clients have (well this week in the pub) any desire or excitement for it - these are the guys who hate RED, any DSLR and any format the 18 year old PD gets lumped with - i.e. 90% of their output!

  • redgammaredgamma

    120 fps at 2.4K won't happen. SSD speed limit is reason.

    Uncompressed RAW is perfect workflow for this low res. camera. SSD is cheap, and can compress to Cineform RAW on a big drive faster than you can copy the same RAW movie to the same hard drive!!! This is because the compression reduced the data rate, and that is the copy speed limiter.

    Those complaining about the price, gimme a break. It's dirt cheap even compared to the 8 bit crap.

  • strancalistrancali

    @redgamma 120fps at 1080p then :).

  • MacalincagMacalincag

    @redgamma

    What if you dump off 120fps DNGs via thunderbolt to a Macbook Pro with 2x SSD in RAID 0 (swapping the optical drive)? Oh snap. Fast enough.

  • plasmasmpplasmasmp

    I don't think copying over thunderbolt will be faster than transcoding to Cineform on fast pc. If cineform doesn't have a utility by then, I'm just going to use my little utility http://eyepatchfilms.com/?p=903 and transcode the footage to cineform raw. DNG is way to huge to deal with storing and making backups.

    EDIT: I don't think I'll ever use Prores with this camera. You lose too many settings available with RAW. The realtime in camera debayering can't be as good as the settings you get with cineform, along with no hardcoded white balance and ISO settings.

  • MacalincagMacalincag

    Imagine 120fps though. That's 600MB/sec. lmao.

  • MacalincagMacalincag

    @plasmasmp

    Right. Doing it that way will be as if the camera did output Cineform raw; same end result, but an extra step. But it really isn't all that bad (especially if they do make a utility) because you can transcode to Cineform raw straight from the SSD and outputting to the PC, then wiping the SSD, ridding you of heavy DNGs, if that's your thing.

  • proaudio4proaudio4

    Thanks for the info shian. Hmmm... Certainly seems smart to wait on this one. I lost interest early on, but the more hear, I'm not impressed.

  • kavadnikavadni

    Looking around found this B4 to EF adapter.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/250965944814?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    There is also a PL to EF that is fitted the same way.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/260885516105?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    It's cecio7 .. he has a good reputation .. I do not have any of his product as yet.

    Four images are of the B4 adapter .. the fifth image is the only image I can find of BMDCC with no lens

    It looks very promising to me.

    B4mounting1.jpg
    658 x 506 - 48K
    b4mounting2.jpg
    658 x 572 - 48K
    b4mounting3.jpg
    658 x 449 - 52K
    b4eosmounting4.jpg
    658 x 463 - 54K
    blackmagiccinemacamera.jpg
    283 x 171 - 18K
  • kronstadtkronstadt

    Found out about BM camera yesterday and joining this thread today.

    Yes, this is a camera to drool over... especially the 13 stops for dynamic range (by the way, how many stops does GH2 have? I remember GH1 has 10 or 11, or am I wrong). I definitely want to have it - many nice bells and whistles that I'd want to see in the camera that I shoot with. But you wait till they release their first firmware update and I'm sure @Vitaliy_Kiselev will make it even better ;)

    Is BM's image 4:4:4 ?

    The market for this kind of camera who can afford a $3000 just for the body is huge, but I'm sure many who cant afford t will be sticking with GH2, which (correct me if I'm wrong) is the next best thing right now at this price range.

    Just from reading the specs of BM, I thought I'd do a pros and cons and why I'll be choosing GH2 as my next camera:

    • BM's EF and ZF mounts mean that you will be spending a small fortune on lenses that run in $thousands if not tens-of-thousands. I'd much rather stick with m4/3 mount with cheap adapters from Hong Kong that I can mount virtually any lens ever made (my lenses made in 1970s perform beautifully on my GH13). (That's also why I liked DBolex's C-mount idea). This is my main reason for staying away from BM. I've built my lens kit around the m4/3 mount and BM has no m4/3 mount!
    • add to that the not-so-great ISO performance, and your bill for even faster lenses will keep mounting.
    • 256GB SSD used as a 30min cassette. WOW! You'll need to take at least 8 of those to a location shoot to accommodate the same 4 hours that the 32GB Trascend class10 SD card provides for less than £25. But then imagine the computer power and also storage HDDs that you will need for post-production. Your laptop definitely won't handle it and you will need to build a new high-end i7 comp.
    • battery running for 90min. Not cool.
    • Okey, BM has an audio inputs and headphone jack (nice), but why the hell did they not make it balanced XLRs like on DBolex?
    • and why the hell is the audio sampling at 48khz/24bit, when even the small Zoom H1 is recording in 96khz/28bit...
    • No 50p or 60p? How on earth are we supposed to do Slow-Mo?
    • The worst thing is that the Rolling Shutter is still there... not cool.

    Conclusion: if I had $10,000-$15,000 spare cash, I'd definitely buy the BM camera ($3000 for the body and the rest for the lenses, SSDs, high-end computer, storage HDDs, batteries, accessories and etcetories -- I'm sure Zacuto has already began designing overpriced junk to mount on this excellent camera). This is definitely a Canon S300 and 5Dm3 killer (in terms of video) and a serious blow to Red Epic. But for everybody else, like myself, GH13 and hacked GH2 is still a camera of choice when making shorts and planning a feature shoot.

    There's still one point that I don't understand though: this camera is shooting in 2.5K, so why does it still matter that it's not "full sensor" (apparently that's the new point of defense for the Canon boys). I don;t get it. Can someone please clarify what's the significance of the sensor size here, if the camera is shooting 2.5K RAW or ProRes anyway?

  • OedipaxOedipax

    @kronstadt, people care about the sensor size because it affects things like what lenses will work on the camera, the crop factor they'll have, as well as things like low-light capability and (most of all) apparent depth of field.

  • kronstadtkronstadt

    ok, I get it (I mean I knew it), but it's really a poor line of defense for 5Dm3 against a camera that shoots with 13 stops of dinamic range, 2.5k, RAW etc, which is totally in a different league altogether.

    Still, the BM sensor being smaller than GH2's and with a crop factor of 2.4, I think BM has made a huge mistake by not putting a m4/3 mount. I mean with m4/3 you can always go up to ZF, PL mounts etc (or any other mount), but you cannot go down from ZF to m4/3. That's my main beef with these cameras.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    but it's really a poor line of defense for 5Dm3 against a camera that shoots with 13 stops of dinamic range, 2.5k, RAW etc, which is totally in a different league altogether.

    It is just different camera. It is not camera for the masses. 5Dm3 and Canon entry video oriented offers are mass cameras.

  • kronstadtkronstadt

    I've just emailed the BM complaining about why on earth did they not make it with m4/3 mount by default. And also asking if they plan to release another version of the camera with a m4/3 mount. Let's see what they say.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @kronstadt

    LOL

    About thousand people did similar thing before. They already answered that have no plans to make other mounts for this camera. May be in next cameras models it'll change.

  • kronstadtkronstadt

    Their reply email just came in:

    Hello, Thank you for your kind words. I have not been made aware of any plans on making a 4/3rds version. I will forward this to our product manager as a feature request. Thank you for your suggestion.

    All the best, Eric Pestana Support Representative Blackmagicdesign

  • ahblezaahbleza

    @Macalincag Don't forget that even the much vaunted FS700 only shoots 240fps for 8 seconds. It's not continuous acquisition as it is with 60p. Are we sure that the sensor can't write to a buffer for 8 seconds?

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