Ozone Hoax rises again

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Scientists spent years campaigning for a ban on the ozone-damaging chemical CFC-11, but 30 years after it was phased out in the 1987 Montreal Protocol, someone somewhere is breaking the rules. According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, emissions of the banned chemical are on the rise, climbing 25 percent since 2012. By now, production of CFC-11 is supposed to be at or near zero.

Scientists don't know who is creating the emissions, nor where they're coming from. Findings suggest they might be coming from somewhere in eastern Asia, but this can't be pinpointed any further. "Somebody's cheating," Duwood Zaelke, an expert on the Montreal Protocol, told The Washington Post. "There's some slight possibility there's an unintentional release, but ... they make it clear there's strong evidence this is actually being produced."

This scientists are scammers who serve commercial interests of monopolies

Good read on topic - https://www.amazon.com/Holes-Ozone-Scare-Scientific-Evidence/dp/0962813400/

firstbase

Coming soon... Ozone taxes!

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@firstbase

No, this guys are scared that someone accidently starts producing old kinds of better and cheaper Freon again.
Big income from patents and equipment is at stake.

brianl

No need to worry about scientific scammers in the US. Our right wing government has already dismissed science as fake. Look how smart our Senators are: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/17/republican-congressman-mo-brooks-sea-level-rise-rocks

A member of Congress has suggested that the White Cliffs of Dover tumbling into the English Channel was causing rising sea levels.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@brianl

And what you expected?

If he will suddenly go against interest of capitalist, make me know this.

brianl

United States managed reverence for science for decades. Capitalism can co-exist with science. For example, science comes up with awesome military technology that can slaughter thousands of people in a nano second. Lately, our country has been taken over by right wing nutters and Christian extremists. They say science is a hoax.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Capitalism can co-exist with science. For example, science comes up with awesome military technology that can slaughter thousands of people in a nano second.

I want to put this in reverse, for now science can still coexist with capitalism, but it becomes harder and harder. Not all science, most social and economic science is not a science but some form of lie.

Lately, our country has been taken over by right wing nutters and Christian extremists. They say science is a hoax.

Last time I checked nothing changed much. Just with progress ruling class roles become more and more visible as it holds further progress.

bwhitz

Lately, our country has been taken over by right wing nutters and Christian extremists. They say science is a hoax

Lol... so does the Left. Bring up the science of biological sex difference, human biodiversity, or even just IQ and genetics and watch the Left deny science all day long. They hate evolution just as much as the religious-right...

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@bwhitz

Terms that you use ala left and right need proper definition first.

As people you reference are just lot of idiots , mostly because they fight for equal "rights" under capitalism and this normally results in circus like stuff.

brianl

bwhitz I get it you don't like LGBT people. And you're undoubtedly referencing Charles Murray. He's never been remotely qualified to pontificate on race. He's another Koch Brother stooge. Your comments are not grounded in reality. The left hates evolution? IQ research? Genetics? Where do you get this? Breitbart?

Glenn7

Thanks, Vitaliy! Good book.

tigerbengal2009

Well said brianl...breitbart, fox news are the REAL FAKE NEWS!!!

caveport

Vitaliy, you are so wrong it's almost funny! Ozone depletion is real. Scientists are not stooges for anyone else. People living in the Northern Hemisphere can pretend it's some kind of conspiracy, but in the Southern Hemisphere we must deal with the extra UV radiation which is affecting crop production and local climate variation. It's well documented in this part of the world.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@caveport

First principle of @caveport - never read that is written.

Second principle - never look and read books referenced.

Third principle - make and debunk your own statement :-)

bwhitz

@brianl

bwhitz I get it you don't like LGBT people

Your comments are not grounded in reality.

Do I even need to point out the hypocrisy here? Where were LGBT people even discussed? So, MY comments are not grounded in reality... but you started your response by jumping off the deep-end with something not even mentioned here. You're living in some pre-programmed fantasy straw-man-land. I don't care what proclivity any other person has. It's none of my business. I have a few gay friends and was just hanging out with a cool gay-dude-couple a few nights ago, even recommended one of the guys for a friend's project soon... not that it's any of your business. But, it's seems like we're going into weird tangents at this point...

He's another Koch Brother stooge.

You realize the Koch brothers are pro-mass-immigration, right. Why would he be a "stooge" of theirs. lol?

Where do you get this? Breitbart?

Where did you get your dismissive attitude of Brietbart? The Young Turks? lol. This is almost too dumb to respond to.

And you're undoubtedly referencing Charles Murray.

Sure, he's one. There's also Sam Harris (for someone on "the Left"). There's also countless others... Watson & Crick (the guys who did all that DNA stuff)... ect. But the science is real. Nobody has offered counter-evidence to what they're observing and measuring. Bell Curves, Pareto distributions, ect. are found in almost everything. Also, if you understand evolution at all... the idea that all groups of people on earth evolved the same is a RELIGIOUS concept. It's just not biologically plausible.

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Terms that you use ala left and right need proper definition first.

Well, this is going to take some time... this debate has gone on for decades-and-decades. Nobody uses these terms properly or even consistently. I use them in the historical sense of how people see the government or State's role in organizing society. The Left favors more State Control and intervention... planned economies... ect. The Right favors less governance... spontaneous order, unregulated economics, ect.

But I have a feeling people here are about to start telling me I'm wrong... and then not offering any definitions of their own. I know how these discussions go.

v10tdi

How do you know what you think you know? :)

I found a podcast episode produced by Radiolab that some might find interesting on different aspects of the social science challenge discussion above: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/stereothreat

Plenty of interweb comments on the topic specifically and more generally how "scientific" results may not be so "scientific" after all. In this thread @Vitaliy points out the corrupting influence of one economic framework on the science of CFCs/Ozone.

Wunderground has an interesting discussion on the ozone topic
https://www.wunderground.com/resources/climate/holefaq.asp
and skeptics
https://www.wunderground.com/resources/climate/ozone_skeptics.asp

For my own part, I believe that scientific methods, concepts and principles are similar to any religious, philosophical, political, moral or ethical framework. Write them down and at best, the ideology holds together well on paper. However, when put into practice IRL, these frameworks encounter conditions that undermine or even invalidate some of their most basic precepts.

How do you know what you think you know?

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Left favors more State Control and intervention... planned economies... ect. The Right favors less governance... spontaneous order, unregulated economics, ect.

And funniest of all that it is actually reverse. Such thing happens because most current left or right are just lefty and righty, people who do not look forward, but people who look back and dream. Righty (ala Austrian guys) started to dream about golden days of capitalism and dream to make time going back breaking all the rules. And lefty just becoming opportunists serving ruling class and hence loving present state by itself.

But I have a feeling people here are about to start telling me I'm wrong... and then not offering any definitions of their own. I know how these discussions go.

Actually definitions exist, if you search properly :-)

bwhitz

And funniest of all that it is actually reverse.

Ok, well, this could actually be an interesting conversation now... since at least we can agree on a "scale" of some sorts, even if you think it's reversed.

My response is now then, why does the Left tend to favor things such as planned economies? Socialism, Social Democracies, ect? Those all require increased State control of economics/industry. Increased taxation requires a stronger State to enforce said taxation. Redistribution of wealth (mostly championed by the Left) also requires a State with increased power to "move wealth" around. These are all moving AWAY from spontaneous order and deregulation. So that is my logic in placing "the Left" on the side favoring more State-Control.

But, yes, if you have a different take on this I'm interested to hear it...

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Look that we have here:

US scientists found CFC-11 emissions

This increase accounts for a substantial fraction (at least 40 to 60 per cent) of the global rise in CFC-11 emissions," an international team of researchers writes in a new report.

"We find no evidence for a significant increase in CFC-11 emissions from any other eastern Asian countries or other regions of the world where there are available data for the detection of regional emissions."

After tracking down documents and international sources, journalists at The New York Times and independent investigators discovered that in some factories in China, illegal CFC use has been slipping through the cracks for years.

It is really time to hang all this journalist as well as authors of this huge hoax.

caveport

Here's some REAL information. Time to hang all the paranoid and delusional conspiracy idiots. https://earthsky.org/earth/ozone-hole-closing-video

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@caveport

Read the book. As soon as you will start to read it will be possible to talk to you on this matter.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Ozone hole

The Montreal Protocol, an international agreement signed in 1987 to stop chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) destroying the ozone layer, now appears to be the first international treaty to successfully slow the rate of global warming.

New research published today in Environmental Research Letters has revealed that thanks to the Protocol, today's global temperatures are considerably lower. And by mid-century the Earth will be—on average—at least 1°C cooler than it would have been without the agreement. Mitigation is even greater in regions such as the Arctic, where the avoided warming will be as much as 3°C—4°C.

"By mass CFCs are thousands of times more potent a greenhouse gas compared to CO2, so the Montreal Protocol not only saved the ozone layer but it also mitigated a substantial fraction of global warming," said lead author of the paper Rishav Goyal.

Look how nice all is.

Hoax produced $1 for each $1000 of damages it made (and still making due to significantly more issues with cooling equipment and shorter life of their parts).

Extreme repressions must be required to scientist that will be proven making all this up.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

New series

A study published today in Nature Climate Change by researchers at Columbia University examines the greenhouse warming effects of ozone-depleting substances and finds that they caused about a third of all global warming from 1955 to 2005, and half of Arctic warming and sea ice loss during that period. They thus acted as a strong supplement to carbon dioxide, the most pervasive greenhouse gas; their effects have since started to fade, as they are no longer produced and slowly dissolve.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-01/eiac-osc011720.php

This guys really deserve highest measure of social protection.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

And now it is clear that they want

Now MIT researchers have found that much of the current emission of these gases likely stems from large CFC "banks"—old equipment such as building insulation foam, refrigerators and cooling systems, and foam insulation, that was manufactured before the global phaseout of CFCs and is still leaking the gases into the atmosphere. Based on earlier analyses, scientists concluded that CFC banks would be too small to contribute very much to ozone depletion, and so policymakers allowed the banks to remain.

Expect soon orders to buy new "efficient" refrigerators build to last few years only.

https://phys.org/news/2020-03-emissions-ozone-depleting-chemicals-larger.html

Real prostitute science and criminal corporations.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

In 2022, the total volume of use in the Russian industry of substances that negatively affect the ozone layer of the planet will be reduced by 20% - from the current 363 metric tons to 291 tons. The order was approved by Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin.

The document states that next year in Russia it is allowed to use only two types of ozone-depleting substances (ODS). These are difluorochloromethane and fluorodichloroethane. The permissible volumes of their consumption are fixed at the level of 218.6 tons and 72.3 tons, respectively. Thus, the total use of substances that negatively affect the state of the ozone layer will decrease to 291 tons.

Ozone depleting substances include chlorine and bromine based chemicals that are used in a variety of industries. For example, they are used in the manufacture of refrigerators, air conditioners, aerosols, fire extinguishers, and solvents.

Since ODS damage the protective layer of the planet, the volumes of their import, production and use in the country are regulated by the state. The main goal is to gradually reduce their consumption until they are completely abandoned by 2030.

The order was prepared in the framework of fulfilling Russia's obligations under the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer in 1985 and the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer, adopted in 1987.

This guys are keeping their work, slowly.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Ozone above Moscow

The most unexpected and needing explanation result of the performed statistical analysis is the discovery of a sharp decrease in the variability (variations and covariance parameters) of the ozone profile above 30 km in 2007–2017. in comparison with 1996-2006. The main factors that could lead to such a significant decrease were considered the different nature of the large-scale dynamics of the stratosphere in the Northern Hemisphere in the periods (decades) considered, as well as a strong drop in solar activity in the 24th cycle in 2007–2017. compared with the 23rd cycle in 1996-2006. Indeed, the analyzed 22-year period almost exactly coincided with the last two 11-year cycles of solar activity. Solar activity in the 24th cycle was almost half as much as in the 23rd. This could lead to the aforementioned small decrease in the ozone content in the vertical column of the atmosphere in the 24th cycle compared to the 23rd. In [1], the influence of variations in solar activity on the ozone content in the atmospheric column is estimated at 1–2% with a maximum at polar latitudes. However, it should be noted that solar-related variations in ozone profiles can be more significant than variations in column ozone.

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