Official Low GOP topic, series 4

balazer

It seems that lpowell is trying to steal some thunder from my Cake with his Flow Motion. ;)

At first glance it looks like Flow Motion has a quality advantage if you don't care about spanning. If you care about spanning, Cake should win for quality and efficiency.

But I need people to test it and let me know if it works!

duartix

@balazer:

What are the essential parameters that make this patch set so much VBR?

What other parameters did you have to watch for it not to break?

I'm trying to make a patch set (for totally different footage characteristics) for which I believe this VBR approach is the way to go and I'm trying to learn how to tackle it.

balazer

@duartix, to achieve constant quality in my Cake patch settings, I set the bit rate and the frame limits high, and set a quantization parameter to control the quality level. I copied Driftwood's Quantum Beta 8, which apparently has some other setting in it necessary to make a static quantization parameter work.

Sage

@JDN The one on dvx is more recent. I want to set the standard to your test, so that it works for you 100% of the time.

driftwood

Quantum X - the all i frame patch is coming...

duartix

@Driftwood Cheers Nick.

Reading @balazer last comment, what do you reckon is the magic parameter setting that makes a static quantization work? I'd kill for something as simple as this:

Sage

@driftwood Have you gotten the i frames higher on 50/60? (~280?) If so, count me in

[Deleted User]

Will Quantum X work with panny lenses... a conformations would be great all i need is 24H

No_SuRReNDeR

Well I started the feature on Aquamotion v2 and for consistency will continue to shoot that patch... but next film--- which is a shorter film (1 weekend shoot). I think I am going try out Quantum X...

*In Driftwood I trust!

shian

@artiswar which patch did u test in those screen caps? 9b?

artiswar

@shian - That is 9b.

[Deleted User]

@artiswar, glad your liking the lomos ;)

balazer

I had a chance to test my constant quality VBR "Cake" settings against some other settings on some different scenes at different ISOs. In my humble opinion, Cake easily beats SpanMyBitchUp (66 Mbps intra) and Quantum 50 (Intra), and equals Aquamotion (88 Mbps intra), while averaging less than half the bit rate. Flow Motion L50 beats Cake for a static highly detailed scene at ISO 200, but Cake wins at ISO 400 and higher or when there is motion. At ISO 400 and up or when there is motion, Flow Motion L50 doesn't manage to keep the frames as close in quality to each other as Cake does.

Personally, I'm not interested in any settings that don't span, so I didn't test Flow Motion H100. I suppose if you don't care about spanning and you don't mind such high bit rates, you're probably better off with 146-Mbps intra.

I'm really excited about the quality I'm seeing from Cake. I wish some people would try it out!

driftwood

Its a nice patch @balazer.

ignatius

Haven't tried "Cake", but seems like a great patch...well done balazer.

@driftwood, could you be dropping a bomb soon sir? Your reticence has got me excited. Love this bloody place...

duartix

@balazer: You forgot to set "All Languages". Encoder setting 1 720p is checked but has default value. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

proaudio4

Quantum X - damn that even sounds good...

mozes · vlcsnap-2012-01-26-12h27m38s50.jpg

@Balazer, just tryid your patch. Sadly enough in 720 SH and H mode in tele there is a speed limit on the sandisk extreem hd video 32gb 30mb/s. when go higher then iso160
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the first patch that dose save the recorded file, in other patches a get a 0mb clip

In 24p and 50i mode it runs great. even with tele-converter
*File size : 43.8 MiB
Duration : 17s 833ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 20.6 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 184 Mbps
*File size : 211 MiB
Duration : 46s 972ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 37.7 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 184 Mbps
- I love the image it gives

In 720p 50 fps with tele2 and the error speed limit give me this file
File size : 125 MiB
Duration : 13s 721ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 76.2 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 100 Mbps

1e screenshot from vlc player (raw mts file 720p, 50fps, iso, 160 color neutral, white ballans-daylight)
2e screenshot from vlc player (raw mts file 720p, 50fps, iso, 320 color neutral, white ballans-daylight) done with tele2 ad max = 300mm
4e screenshot from vlc player (raw mts file 1080, 50fps, 24p iso, 160 color neutra, white ballans-daylightl)
Screenshot 3 is a bad jpg compression i uploaded the 4e in a png screengrap from vlc-player
I did not have permision to delete the 3e image.

rikyxxx

@Balazer

Tried your patch:

No writing issue (Samsung 16GB class 10)
No ex-tele issue
Quality => very good

The only mode I use is 1080i50 (de-interlaced in post-production), I'm a slow-motion addict :-)

No idea about 1080p/720p.

Thanks a lot for "Cake",

Riccardo

duartix

@mozes: When uploading JPG please make sure you have saved them at maximum quality. All your samples are suffering from heavy compression, there's blocking, ringing, the whole enchilada. I'd almost go as far as suggesting to post PNG only.

There is no conclusion to draw from these samples until you update with proper captures.

@Vitaliy_Kiselev : Is there a reason why we can't delete attached files? Every time I try to delete one of my attachments, I get a confirmation overlay and when I press "Okay" I always get this: {"Code":401,"Exception":"You don't have permission to do that."}

mozes

you are right, i wanted to upload the good png screens, but then the post gets such a chaos, thats why only updated that 1 image.
I will upload a 720p 50fps, a 10801 and 1080 24p clip, strate out off the gh2.
I really like this patch, just that it doesn't record in 720 tele is for me a slight hold back, because i use it 25% off the time.

quick question, can i use driftwoods Quantum v9 720 settings in this patch? mmm well i go try it ;-)

duartix

Cake test 24p @ISO3200 & Panasonic 14-42mm.

Very reactive bitrate. :)

Amazing quality and detail. Great grainy shadows. No blocks. Absolutely no noticeable difference between I/P frames in my eyes.

The boring stuff:

Stream: TS Max Speed = 187.656.100 bps
Mode = 1080/24p
Average PCR Timing Interval = 0,094 seconds
Clip Duration = 0:00:44,42
PCR Duration = 0:00:44,43
Average Total Bitrate = 59.368.189
Average Video Bitrate = 57.509.756
Average Audio Bitrate = 235.155
Average Other Bitrate = 1.623.277
Max GOP Size = 1.124.352 Bytes (8.994.816 bits)
Video Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max)= 169.728 / 305.899 / 408.960

No speed issues on Samsung Class 10 Pro 16GB.

mozes

720 50fps uploaded the orginal mts CAKE file to youtube.

the 50i and 24p file are uploading to https://www.wetransfer.com/
its 1.47gb it will take some time when i will poat the links

bkmcwd

@ Silent users of my patches :-)

This is the patch focused on image quality which referred to advice of Chris Brandin and Nick Driftwood, and was made.

Special thanks to @cbrandin and @driftwood!

NOTE: *24L mode is for 24p80%(30p). *Except 1080/24p, it is completely the same as my usual, and they are the contents of Chris's 66M. Of course, you can combine with a favorite patch except 24p and 50i. *In camera playback is available. *Spanning in 24H and 24L with SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC Card.

UPDATE(2012.Feb.3rd): http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/39577#Comment_39577

driftwood

@bkmcwd Nice work. I reccommend this excellent patch combining great picture size, good estimated psnr (signal to noise ratio), and good quantisation. Plus, great rate control - PCR duration matches Clip duration - which slightly helps!!! This is 'thee' de facto best GOP3 patch around.

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