Anti-Trump Protests

Sangye

Every night for the past week, there have been large anti-Trump protests in major cities around the country. In my relatively small home city of Portland Oregon, 4000+ people have attended some of these demonstrations. I've been documenting the protests and put together this montage with some of the footage:

16,000 people have RSVP'd in under two days for a mass demonstration in Portland on Inauguration Day. If anywhere near that many people show up, it will set a record for the largest demonstration in Portland history. Many other cities are expecting similar events. In Washington D.C, a huge number of people are expected to march to the mall in protest of his proposed policies.

matt_gh2

@Sangye Great work - keep it up. I'm not sure exactly which media outlets are covering all this and how they are, but I would submit this to various news channels (cable TV, online, whatever). Hopefully they'll broadcast it. Even if they would co-opt it to support "establishment democratic politicians", it still has value if broadcast...any demonstration against power and corruption is good. Great work.

bannedindv

Thank you for doing this!

Please support the Change.Org petition to request electoral college to make their vote for the national popular vote (Hillary) - even if you don't like Hillary this will send a message of change. Personally I do support Hillary, and I can't stand to see this nation fall into the hands of Trump and Pence.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@Sangye

What all this people are protesting against exactly?

I mean that exact proposed economic policies of Trums are so unusual and different from Hillary?

bannedindv

It's not the economic policies, it's the social policies, concerns about the environment, open racism, open sexism.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

It's not the economic policies, it's the social policies, concerns about the environment, open racism, open sexism.

You mean this seriously? I mean that racism, sexism and environment are not actually consequences of economics?

Where is good quote of smart man of all this:

To decide once every few years which members of the ruling class is to repress and crush the people through parliament--this is the real essence of bourgeois parliamentarism.

Same apply to any elections in capitalism.

bannedindv

I see what you mean Vitaliy.

Great article a friend of mine just shared to me:

https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@bannedindv

Can you point any good thing in this article, for me it is all that main media told the masses always.

Usual capitalists article with redefinition of usual terms and pushing things that does not matter.

bannedindv

It's not "good news" it just reinforces your point about economics and makes it clearer to me where the divide grows from. I would consider myself a "professional" who clawed my way up from the "working class" , I guess I can easily say the Obama years here in America have been some of the happiest of my personal life, despite health care cost increase. No one person or system is perfect, but I feel like I've stood a chance over the last eight years to escape crushing economic downturn.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@bannedindv

I am sad to upset you, but such things as "professionals" class does not exist, same as "middle" class.

You still belong to proletariat. Until you own your means of production and work for yourself.

Sangye

@Vitaliy_Kiselev -- I agree about the primacy of the economy, which all social and cultural issues arise from. But that feeling is shared by many of the protesters I've met, too. Many of them disliked Hillary nearly as much as they dislike Trump. I think many of them would have protested her winning, too. Many of them are anarchists and socialists, for that matter.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Well.. it means that this people just do not understand their core interests. They just kind of do not like something, but don't know exactly that.

The philosophy of the anarchists is bourgeois philosophy turned inside out.

:-)

matt_gh2

@Sangye Your point holds up. @VK There may be some truth to the idea that many of these people don't know the full, detailed, intelligent, intellectual, rigorous analysis on the intersection of economics, politics, and culture etc. But most importantly they are correct...they smell something bad...something immoral...and they dont like it...and they try to do the best they can to fight back.

(Not everyone has the ability, the inclination, and the time to do a lot of reading, thinking, discussing, analyzing, research, economics, psychology, and sociology study that is needed to know things rigorously. That doesn't mean their instinctual reactions have no value.)

Vitaliy_Kiselev

There may be some truth to the idea that many of these people don't know the full, detailed, intelligent, intellectual, rigorous analysis on the intersection of economics, politics, and culture etc. But most importantly they are correct...they smell something bad...something immoral...and they dont like it...and they try to do the best they can to fight back.

Well, if you go out into some protest you must have some idea about result of it. Otherwise it is nothing more than circus act.

Problem here that they do not only have no idea about their interest, they have not even slightest sign of wanting to get any result from it all.

theconformist

On Trump's "open racism": http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@theconformist

Any point to read it all?

This cat of theater play ended, now it can be only interesting to some perverted art researchers.

theconformist

@vitaliy_kiselev

"What if, one day, there is a candidate who hates black people so much that he doesn’t go on a campaign stop to a traditionally black church in Detroit, talk about all of the contributions black people have made to America, promise to fight for black people, and say that his campaign is about opposing racism in all its forms? What if there’s a candidate who does something more like, say, go to a KKK meeting and say that black people are inferior and only whites are real Americans?

We might want to use words like “openly racist” or “openly white supremacist” to describe him. And at that point, nobody will listen, because we wasted “openly white supremacist” on the guy who tweets pictures of himself eating a taco on Cinco de Mayo while saying “I love Hispanics!”"

If in 4 years, the US is not the dystopian hellscape these protesters imagine they are trying to prevent, they may very well believe it is on account of their efforts, but no one will ever take them seriously again.

theconformist

@matt_gh2 "Not everyone has the ability, the inclination, and the time to do a lot of reading, thinking, discussing, analyzing, research, economics, psychology, and sociology study that is needed to know things rigorously. That doesn't mean their instinctual reactions have no value."

In most cases, it does.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@theconformist

Just drop all this racist things. It is not serious.

Focus on reality and real economic stuff.

theconformist

@vitaliy_kiselev

For protesters it is all about the racist (sexist/misogynist/homophobe/islamophobe) things... That is my point.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

For protesters it is all about the racist (sexist/misogynist/homophobe/islamophobe) things... That is my point.

May be. But my point is that all this people are doing is walking and wasting time.

theconformist

@vitaliy_kiselev

Yes, should be working on forming new American left. Precious little time for progressive candidates to get on state/local election ballots for 2017, primary Democrat incumbents for congressional elections in 2018.. they only care about winning Presidency in 2020 (likely with another Clinton-type) meanwhile conservatives control EVERYTHING.

matt_gh2

@VK I agree - it's better to be fully informed, and also be fully focused on outcomes. But even though some of these people may only have loose ideas of "freedom" or "anti-corruption", it still has some value in bringing pressure to bear on those in power, along with furthering the focus among people in general. Yes, some of these people take a "circus" approach, but they do bring value.

@theconformist I agree - a lot of protesting often seemingly leads to nothing. But some of it does lead to some level of improvement in things.

Taking @theconformist 's point a bit furhter. He said "For protesters it is all about the racist (sexist/misogynist/homophobe/islamophobe) things... That is my point.", and I think that is important. Although @VK intelligently points out the need to focus on economics, it is also important to address any politician's racist/prejudiced speech and policies, because 1) it's wrong by itself, and 2) racist/prejudiced speech and policy are often used by those politicians who want utilize state power for bad reasons, whether it's outright facsicm or it's semi-fascism "lite" with nationalist language that is utilized to justify corrupt elements of capitalism linked to politics.

Hitler was naked power. The Roosevelts, Clintons, Bushs, Obamas utilize finesse and rhetorical speech ("I'm here to help" they always say...but somehow they become rich as they help the big businessmen become rich). Trump is a hybrid in that he utilizes both. People are reacting because they hear his speech and his disregard for many people...and it feels like naked power. They should react and protest. They should have also done so just as strongly against the all the previous generations of politicians.

Good discussion lads - now it's time to get back to work!

Vitaliy_Kiselev

I agree - it's better to be fully informed, and also be fully focused on outcomes. But even though some of these people may only have loose ideas of "freedom" or "anti-corruption", it still has some value in bringing pressure to bear on those in power, along with furthering the focus among people in general. Yes, some of these people take a "circus" approach, but they do bring value.

If you are going to streets you need to understand that you want to achieve. Just in real terms. Problem with all this circus is that none of it ever achieved anything real, hence the circus term.

tonalt

Just give Trump a chance, ok?

_OZ

These things are not linear, nor trackable, nor quantifiable, so assessing the value of public protest is beyond anyone's measure, historically.

You can look at broad strokes of public protest, the general climate of mass movements and public attitude toward policy, and try to make some connections, but the truth is that even when there is a very specific agenda such as MLK's march on Washington for civil rights, or women's suffrage marches during the 20th century, it is all interconnected with countless meetings, gatherings, discussions, arguments, that came before. This stuff is way too complicated to assess. When a tipping point is finally reached on an issue, or pressuring policy makers has finally caused a decisive change, no one actually knows how to measure the buildup and what parts contributed to what degree. It's like trying to predict behavior of life within the ocean. It's simply way too large of a data set to judge.

One thing is certain, people don't organize for specific change (non-circus) without first talking to each other. In a very atomized world, the very act of getting together in a shared physical space can facilitate new and lasting relationships. No guarantees, but it is one of many steps along the way of efforts toward influencing policy from the ground level.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

Tags in Topic

Top Posters