Panasonic GX80, GX85, or even GX7 Mark II in Japan

DrDave

@Vesku it's true it's hard to compare the GH4 and the GX85, but my impression is that both the G7 and GX85 are just incrementally better than the GH4--a small but significant difference, but small enough that it isn't a big deal.

Jspatz

I was just stress testing to see how long I could continuously shoot on the GX85. The camera was set to 4K 30. When I came back the camera was off. When I turned it back on, the battery had 2 bars left. It had created a single 33.6 GB file, 50:58 in length on a newly formatted SDXC card. Can anyone explain why that particular limit and why no 4GB segments. Thanks.

markr041

How bad is the GX85 in-camera audio? This video compares the audio track from the camera to that from a Zoom H1 (with dead cat) recorded at an outdoors opera recital, with full orchestra. The concert sound was, of course, amplified, so mic placement is not the issue. What is the issue is wind noise and compression (AGC and the low audio bitrate (128 kbps). The H1 soundtrack is 24 bit, 48Hz and uncompressed (1560 kbps). The first clip is with in-camera audio; the second is the same clip with the H1 audio:

You will note that the H1 track is at a lower level; that is because it has the full dynamic range (the peak is -1.0 Db) while the in-camera audio is pumped up and leveled In-camera). How bad is the GX85 audio? Real bad.

Scot

@mark041 Neither audio sounds great personally. Comparing any mics one with dead cat and one without isn't much of a comparison. I would have liked to hear both without a deadcat or both with. I remember some article I read where someone stuck some dead cat fur over his on camera mics. Looked weird but seemed functional. That being said as always if you want good sound you need to record it separately. Personally after hearing all the fussing I was surprised that in the situations I'd be looking to use it (mostly speaking voices indoors) it was not nearly half as bad as I was led to believe from the posts.

Scot

Can someone enlighten me why using a 64gb card AVC 1080 30P shows a recording time of 5h 43m and MP4 is 27m 09s while MP4 2160 30P is 1h 22m. Are the the non 4K modes still limited to 29m 59s (hint 720 30P is 29m 59s)? Also any opinions on which is better for 1080 MP4 or AVC and why?

Tron

FYI - Smallrig is supposedly taking preorders for a new cage set to ship on August 31. They are providing 50% off as incentive to get in on the first run. I am not affiliated with the company but I have purchased from their Amazon page in the past and was pleased with the quality of the parts I received. I plunked down for one about a week ago but recommend proceeding at your own risk. http://www.smallrig.com/SMALLRIG-Cage-for-Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GX85-GX80-GX7-Mark-II-1828.html

ETA - This is just for the basic cage, does not include rails and handles as far as I know.

Tron

Finally got some time to get out and shoot... I'm liking this kit much better than the GH4 despite the audio handicap.

markr041

@scot, who said "Neither audio sounds great personally. Comparing any mics one with dead cat and one without isn't much of a comparison. I would have liked to hear both without a deadcat or both with. Personally after hearing all the fussing I was surprised that in the situations I'd be looking to use it (mostly speaking voices indoors) it was not nearly half as bad as I was led to believe from the posts."

The audio recording is of music amplified through outdoor speakers - did you expect that to sound "great"? The deadcat only prevents wind noise, nothing else. And you learned that a deadcat is remarkably effective.There is also ample time in the clips to compare mics/preamps/codecs when both have no wind noise. The issue is the difference, not whether they sound great. And the difference is quite discernible when there is no wind noise (didn't you notice?). Oh, did you also want me to record on the H1 using compressed audio for an even better comparison?

I am sorry you learned nothing from the comparison.

The audio in the GX85 is terrible because it compresses dynamics excessively (non-defeatable), is harsh, and picks up the sound of IBIS. You can see it in the waveforms. On Sony RX's you can turn off AGC and the audio is much better.

The GX85 audio capability, however, is not so bad that you cannot understand it when someone talks in front of the camera. You certainly can hear the noise from the stabilization if it is turned on (but you can turn it off).

If you want to disfigure your camera with stick-on deadcats and show us a video/audio comparison, please go ahead. This was a real concert. Did you want me to use third recorder without a deadcat to satisfy your curiosity? I needed a clean audio channel, and I prefer a clean camera too :).

ReflexFilms

Here is what I do - A Zoom H1 with an XLR adaptor lets you get a clean audio mix straight from the soundboard - its invaluable for concerts and speeches - and you get to have a nice chat with the sound guy as you try to convince him to let you plug in. Having a live mic (as you did) for audience interaction (applause mostly) and ambient is nice for the final sound mix.

DrDave

Ummm the built in mic is so bad you don't need to test it. Honestly. For sure. You don't need to. It's terrible.
AS for taking the mix straight from the soundboard, that's OK if there's no other choice, but it's tough with Classical music, better to have the direct out tracks.

Vesku

GX85 may be mediocre but I think GH4 internal sound is quite good. Uncompressed 16bit 1500 kbits/s, no noise at all. I have recorded some concerts and listened with big surround system. The athmosphere and sound clarity is good and I can think being in the concert when listening. I also recorded an airshow where the F18 hornet went at near distance with after burners (very loud) and the sound was very realistic when listened at home. I have a home made foam cover in internal microphone so that the wind noise is minimal outdoors. The only issue is to record someone speaking when not near the camera.

When using a good mono mic we loose the atmosphere or stereo effect. It would be nice if the camera would have an internal mixer mixing external mono mic and internal stereo sound.

soulkeeper

@Vesku Any photos of the internal microphones with your diy foam?

Vesku

Here is my current foam. It had a second layer of rough foam and it was more effective.

soulkeeper

Thanks!I'll try it!

Scot

@markr041 It has become pretty clear that wind, in camera stabilization and internal mics are not a good match. Which really presses the point of how important it is to include a mic port so you can get the mic isolated from the camera body and put foam or deadcat on the mic. You would have thought this was a great opportunity for Panasonic to sell there own external mic to non pros. Confront the issue and offer the solution. Hell they could have left the mic off all together and offered a sound kit that plugs in to camera. Instant secondary revenue stream could look something like the Tascam DR-10SG. Even with the sound issue I still love what's good about this camera till something better comes along. Just a heads up I wouldn't expect the GH5 to be immune to the same stabilization noise issue!

MikeLinn

Panasonic GX85 / GX80 Rolling Shutter test - 4K vs HD

markr041

@scot I agree with you on the need for separate mic and wind protection. And I am surprised too that Panasonic omitted the mic input or having a hot shoe mic (and also manual audio controls). They really were protecting their higher-level cameras. @Vesku I agree that the GH4 has good audio; one reason is you can control levels manually (turn off AGC). It is also clear that they cared about audio quality for that camera.

For fun, here is the H1 audio track used in the intro cut from the opera video:

Vitaliy_Kiselev

http://gonzalobroto.blogspot.ru/2016/08/towns-that-were-or-language-of-stones.html

Vitaliy_Kiselev

http://ugofoto.blogspot.ru/2016/08/panasonic-gx80-impressioni-di-uso.html

markr041

Isaac_B

Some image related observations that may help in your shooting:

I originally shot with Natural Mode a lot, and shifted to Standard a few weeks ago. I haven't been super happy with either mode when it comes to higher ISO's, but in testing earlier this week I discovered that PORTRAIT mode looks great at higher (and lower) ISO's with less visible noise reduction at work, and it has a smoother fall off between dark and light areas. The higher iso grain on this setting is fine and very filmic.

Test it out and compare to Standard/Natural. I'm only using Portrait mode from now on with these settings.

-5, -5, -5, -3.

Scot

@bealbuoy The GX85 does use the same battery coupler as the GF3 just got one. Need to find a right angle plug since access is thru the bottom of the battery door which is a little inconvenient.

MikeLinn

Vitaliy_Kiselev

http://mirrorlesscomparison.com/panasonic-vs-panasonic/gx85-vs-g7/

MikeLinn

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