It's official: The US is the world's leading terrorist state, and proud of it

aae991

The Northwoods plan is quite shocking indeed. It certainly adds another group of people who would like to have seen Kennedy removed. I have no illusions about what the U.S. government (and various shadow governments) have done and will do in the future. There are some pretty sleazy, wicked characters behind the scenes. Life means nothing to them. You need look no further than Dick Cheney.

Irondiver

Rather interesting to find a discussion like this going on this site. I think I may have something to add. I like documentaries, I even enjoy a good document dump as a result of a foia request. But make no misstakes behind all these ideas, revelations operations there are ideologies with intent. The US has had a colorful and interesting history, but the reasoned most people with open minds give this country a pass has to do with our intentions. Someone mentioned the US firebombing Japan and eventually atomizing two cities. Yes we all can agree horrible outcomes, but the intent was to hasten the end of the war and hopefully save more lives. Another is that the US is responsible for creation of Alquada or ISIS this is false logic because it omits one very important aspect of our humanity, free will. Wether you have a real or perceived grievence with the US, they still are the governors of their own actions. One action does not necessarily begat another. Wether you are shaping the battlefield or influencing public opinion, never forget that the enemy has a choice or that people can come up with some of the damndest conclusions. Lastly, the law of unintended consequences, many black ops programs begin with lofty goals. Then we throw the eggheads out try our best to refine the parameters and pray. But you know Miss Pandora and I am sure you have heard of her lover Mr. Murphy . They are responsible for many runaway programs you have heard about. Makes you kind of wonder of all ones worked.

brianl

@kurth, you need not go further than your own links. They don't even say what you think they say.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@brianl

I want to note. Such topics are made for education only, not for fights or attempts to change position of opponent using few sentences.

jrd

but the reason most people with open minds give this country a pass has to do with our intentions.

Well, if by "most people" you mean most Americans, you're right. Americans are always persuaded that their motivations, unlike other peoples', are virtuous. So when we killed a few million South-East Asian civilians in the 60s and early 70s, it was from good intentions and misguided virtue.

As you might imagine, this argument isn't very persuasive among the victims. And it can't withstand actual scrutiny. Look at what the U.S. has actually done in its foreign policy in the post WWII period, and there's no way to make a case that the intentions were good. It could be the motivations of the ordinary Americans who, through ignorance or the pathology of patriotism, support these invasion, interventions, proxy wars and military coups were good, but that says nothing about policy makers or actual policy.

In this we're hardly unique, however. All empires behave in this way. Chomsky himself has pointed out that foreign media love him when he bashes the U.S., but he never gets invited back on the show if he points out the atrocities of the host country.

And the reason we get a "pass" -- to the extent anyone could do anything about a rogue empire, even if they wanted to (short of terrorism!) -- is that until recently at least, our domestic culture is or at least was freer and more open than many other industrial democracies, and is admired even when our foreign policy is deemed to be criminal. But admiration for our domestic culture is also becoming less common, with the constant diminution of civil liberties by the national security state and the wholesale purchase of all 3 branches of government by the .01%.

Irondiver

I have travelled to 14 different countries and I have never been scared to flag wave, I may not know what fhe locals say behind my back but at least to my face they have said that generally we have been a force for good. Not virtuous, for what country is ever virtuous? No country, state, organization is virtuous. Persons might be virtuous. As far as the high body count numbers that are bandied about I caution any belief in them. It has been experience that they are extremely exaggerated, one turns to ten. Ten turns a hundred. But I will concede that one innocent non-combatant killed is one too many. The problem is in asymmetric warfare who is truely an innocent civilian? As far as judging what the US did after WWII it depends on your politics, if are of the left leaning type there will never be a justification for what the US did during the coldwar. I have had interesting conversations with El Salvadoreans (I am hispanic) that lived there during that brutal civil war. Their opinions are not what I thought they would be. They do not hate us nearly as much as they hated the izquierdistas. That is what I thought about my time in the sandpit. We may not be on there x-mas card list but they hate I mean really hate those barbarians who perveted their faith. But they feel helpless in changing the situation, at which time survival becomes more important.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Closed due going off the rails.

@all Reason for political topics on PV is EDUCATION, period.

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