@mpgxsvcd, I think that the other aspects of how data is processed will also have a huge effect on the image. Surely Sony and Pany have different image processors. There will some similarities, but I think there can be differences based on everything else in the system besides the Sensor.

So far the Moire/Aliasing doesn't seem to be present in every instance that you'd expect. Perhaps as some have suggested it is a symptom of the Lumix lenses and maybe it's not an issue when using other glass that isn't corrected for or as sharp as some of the Lumix lenses. We need more testing to see what the final verdict is on that.

Moire and aliasing seems to be far less obvious or present in videos which obviously have turned down sharpening. It also seems to be the difference between a video look or a cinematic one, so it shoudn´t be a problem unless you want to shoot with a video look.

With the gh2, there can be problems (most notably with certain very high contrast patterns) with some lenses and no problems with others, and not always in a linear fashion. It wasn´t as simple as panny lenses producing it while others didn´t. (always, that is) Different encoder settings worked it differently, too.

I´m suspecting a bit and trial and error testing to find out when the problems occurs with the gh3.. if hacked, I think this is a possible area of improvement, too. If the encoder tables are to blame, that is.

For instance (to back up my reasoning above) if you pixel peep the Genesis video, you´ll find some very clear aliasing in the scene with the guy on the bed, shot from above (I´d guess it´s with the slr magic 12mm as it looks like it was shot wide open - it could also be the 12-35 but I wouldn´t bet on it). I´d also guess this was shot maybe at 720p50 intra.. or 50p @50mpbs. Maybe the amount of information / lack of bandwith makes certain parts of the image go into fallback mode (to coarser encoder), leading to moire and aliasing?

Contrary to many here, I have very little hope that we will see any changes to the final camera. The thing is that almost everytime I saw such situation about changes in camera from hardware specification and image quality, the final version was exactly the same than the announcement. How many time have I seen people saying, no it is only beta, not final version, you will see brand Xor Y can, cannot, will not and in the end it was the same thing that we saw from the launch or some leeks one month before delivery.

Has anyone asked the Panasonic reps. about any possible future firmware upgrade to avc-ultra (avc pro)? supposedly most models after nab should have such upgrade in 2013. That would open the door for a lot of possibilities..

@fix It is on the list of question from PV Photokina team. You can check what they got back.

@thepalalias unfortunately those two example are from small to medium company that are entering there respective market with new product that can only sell buy being hyper competitive or unique in there respective market. Now we are talking about some of the biggest corporation that have whole line of product etc. So they will listen but to a certain extend.

For me Pana looked at the success of the OMD, hailed a a very good photo camera, looked at the video and thought that it was a good compromise in terms of video/photo camera. Looked at how much it would cost them to do the r&d of a chip that could equal that, if it was possible for them even to do that in terms of DR and low noise and thought that for the market they were aiming at it was good enough. It might not sound good because of the romanticism that has developped arround the gh2 and the hack community, but

@danyyel Like I said earlier, I am not disputing the probability of it shipping with firmware in similar form. I am simply saying that the more the company hears about how important it is to fix the firmware, and the greater the sense of an effect on the sale they feel it will have, the more likely they are to address it.

The biggest factor will be the cost of firmware development vs the potential sales volume they believe they will gain or lose based on adding it.

any info about dynamic range of GH3 ?

anyway as all of us I was very looking forward to the GH3, I was oriented to the BMCC but when I heard GH3 was coming out soon, hey, I put the BMCC idea in a box. Now that I still see 420, more aliasing and overall not that good IQ, I changed my mind again and back in love with the BMCC, in my opinion the best IQ out there near the DSLR price range...

I saw there are about 1k reply in this topic so it's a bit hard with my very limited time to search info, excuse me if I ask few question maybe asked dozens time already, reply if you want, skip to next post if you don't.

• Aliasing, is that definitive or the final product can be different ?
• 420, same question as above.
• Are there other bad sides of this camera that I missed ?

Thanks

@thepalalias

thanks man, so the best is just to wait the release and some real footage before making decisions... (as usual)

From what I have seen, were basically a getting a GH2 but with most likely 10.5+ stops of DR, superior colour, superior low light (the 3 BIG things that did not impress on GH2) NATIVE 25p, 1080p50/60, half decent codec options out the box, superior build quality, OLED screen/EVF, improved banding/gradiation, a headphone socket, -5 contrast, proppa HDMI monitoring and so on and so on.

And it cost $1300, how much is an inferior 5D3? or C100? Isnt that exactly what we wanted if not more? So far I have seen a little aliasing (the key word is little), it has no 422 via HDMI (how many would really use that?) an its 2.XX crop (most people thought GH2 was 2x crop anyway) and there is no focus peaking (which I bet no1 was expecting until it was heavily rumoured).

@diffusion33 'on crop factor, most video users are well aware of this' Yes most on this forum, as this is mainly a GH2 community, dip your toe elsewhere an I bet there is confusion as to what it is. GH2 is just about THEE best bang for buck camera in the world, GH3 never had a sniff at keeping everyone happy.

@Jizzjones i couldn't disagree more with your statement on crop factor, most video users are well aware of this and focus peaking as been a feature desire by many since GH1/GH2 days... I think the rumor sties got us excited about focus peaking and 4:2:2..... and feel like these guys have a lot to answer for!!! Also no one can blame us for been pissed at panasonic lack of transparency with the release of the GH3 and and the major changes that they implemented on the new GH3 effectivly making the GH3 and OMD on steroids, all in all it's not a bad thing but they could've made a killer camera and have left us feeling a bit meh!! And now people are considering their options which i don't blame them for. I myself have not invested massively in 4/3 and it makes me think i might go sony or nikon as i also shoot a lot of photos. I'm in no way desperate and love my GH2 Thx to VK and the whole community here a PV that provide tremendous insight, info, tips.... I'll wait and see what the GH3 puts out and make my decission only then. In the mean time i hope the people at pana are seeing this and are reconsidering on firmware. Even if it delayed the camera being release somewhat it probably would be better in the long run.

Maybe it's time to open a thread just for complainers so that the rest of us who've already pre-ordered can get on with the business of developing this camera. Reading through paragraphs of people rehashing the same BS and hang wringing about how they're somehow getting screwed by something they haven't even bought that exists in a format they're not even invested in is just ridiculous. Just go buy a goddamned Sony for the peaking (because you obviously won't pay the extra $200 for a monitor w/peaking feature) and leave the rest of us in peace.

If memory serves me right, the GH3 1080p50 matrix is exactly the same as the High Profile level 4.2 G5 matrix. And true, that both cameras share the same venus engine. Here's the link to the G5 matrix info http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/3936/official-panasonic-g5-topic#Item_88. Earlier in this thread I mentined the 108p50 matrix of the GH3.

Its pretty difficult for me to do stuff in Chile regarding research until I get back late wknd/early next week. Therefore I offer my thanks for the great work the p-v guys at Photokina have done for us all and I apologise that I cannot go deeper with info until then.