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The Great Camera Shootout 2011: Episode Two
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  • stefanosstefanos
    look, i am quite appalled too about the GH2 not being included because of the "it's consumer" argument, which is the stupidest thing I've heard for a test which compares video ability, but our cries at zacuto/panasonic/bob primes are of no use. We need to find the resources to conduct our own tests- in a month from now, when I'll be back in London I'll definitely have access to free AF100 and my GH2 and I bet I could get hold of a 5d or at least rent one for a day. The coolest would be to get hold of a F3 to use as a benchmark and see how close the hacked GH2 will come, as I'm 90% it'll easily blow the AF100 out of the water. I mean, I've seen endless AF100 videos and I see what other people see, disgusting highlight roll-off, mediocre DR, horrible default sharpening. Now I know my GH2 pretty godamn well and I know with the right film modes and settings, the GH2 can produce beautiful highlights, just like the 5d, and the sharpness looks great. Even when I use in camera +2 sharpness I never get results as ugly as the ones of the AF100 in the shoutout. For amateurs and people who don't try or want to make a living from DPing, wet-hiring your camera etc, there shouldn't be an argument and you can live in bliss. But for those of us who do, this is unfortunately important. Ofcourse, logical clients and producers should only care about the results you can bring. Unfortunately though, there is so much snobbishness and technical misinformation in this business, that you can easily lose a job because of your camera and the lack of "street cred" and since I can't be picky about clients and I am a starving student, this debate needs to be settled.
  • proaudio4proaudio4
    With all due respect, the Canon DSLR cameras failed miserably here. Especially on the poka-dot dress. You could not even see it had dots. very strange! Why no GH2? I'm not bashing the Canon. I just think it's strange it could not see dots!
  • SageSage
    @bwhitz
    Compared to anywhere else, the rental houses in LA are very inexpensive because of saturation (twice as expensive where I am). And they let you test them for free on property too.. If not Alexa, then Red One MX... they are cheap bc of saturation and age. I could host the test on my site.
    @Brain202020
    And perhaps now they will go gh2! :)
  • MattMatt
    Oh well, we know the secret of the GH2... why not leave it that way? ;)

    All the guys watching your productions will be like "omg, dude, how did you afford a RED? Cos it's not a DSLR that's for sure!" By "DSLR", they'll be referring to a Canon. ;)
  • bwhitzbwhitz
    @proaudio4 "Why no GH2?"

    Because the high-priests of the video world have declared it a consumer product and not "professional". This is convenient for them because now, no matter how much better the image is, they can just say "but it's not a 'proper' video camera... and it has no place in real 'professional' productions"... then all the disciples on the various (obviously business-affiliated) forums accept the decree as life-or-death fact and the GH2 silently dies.

    +1 @Matt this is the right idea. I guess we'll just keep it a secret... ;)
  • BraamokievBraamokiev
    Many cinematographers credible, they are grilled in this circus. Too bad. The money is to do anything.
  • SageSage
    @bwhitz
    If I get the chance, I will do it and blow the secret. ;)
    Though perhaps not 3. Just against red; that's what I want to see.
  • danyyyeldanyyyel
    I am for those test, unfortunately I am on the other side of the world. This is the best idea I have heard for some time. It would really be a slap to those guys. As said before there are too much of snobbery around and lies. Vitaliy has helped to show how much lies we have to swallow. There are too much vested interest in the blogs and site like DVX, to be impartial now. They only serve their interest to the detriment of those who have put them where they are today. If we can do one test or more the better. This little jewel must be shown to the world.

    There are too much people who want the dslr revolution to end because for some the manufacturers and some of the users they are a formidable threat. Some users always find it like a good practice to denigrate their pears because of the gear while they don't have any talent. Let the opportunity to everyone and be the best shine. It will also help everybody who is going to use the gh2 because he will be able to show in a concrete way what this camera has to offer. Today you find yourself either facing the comparison of people using Canon for dslr and now Af-100, sony fs-100 etc. The "Proper video cameras" people are really getting under my skin. We should see if we should us a system to contribute for the rental etc.
  • LPowellLPowell
    I think it's important to bear in mind that most of Zacuto's test shots were captured via HD-SDI on external video recorders. Aside from the Red One, which has its own internal RAW recorder, only the Canon and Nikon footage was recorded by the camera itself. I think this put the DSLR's at an extreme disadvantage, which is readily seen in the pie-chart sharpness tests.

    If there was a hidden agenda in this test, I'd have to suspect it was a decision to torpedo the burgeoning "DSLR revolution" by showing the Nikon and Canons at their worst. The AF100 was treated with grudging respect, signalling that Panasonic is now on the industry-approved track, which implicitly opens the door to Sony's FS100 as well. The message to Nikon and Canon is to go back to what they do best (still photography), and forget about any pro video aspirations.
  • danyyyeldanyyyel
    Yes they show the dslr as a uniform bunch that don't perform well at all. So the perception is that dslr technology cannot give the result of proper camera. As all of us here know it is not true. The dslr revolution has many person nervous, what we see from Panasonic and Sony with the Af-100 and Fs-100, is to try to capture that group. We dslr tech I am sure that we could expect to get some form of Raw video in the next 5 years. With the video manufactures you could expect 10 bit recording in the large sensor format camera in the $ 5000 range.
  • B3GuyB3Guy
    Also, the point of the shootout, as stated, is not to make the cameras look good and see which looks best. the goal is to stress the cameras and see how bad it gets. Anyone worth their salt could make most of those cameras look very good. IF you do a GH2 comparison test, I suggest doing it this way, under controlled conditions. Otherwise, comparing is very difficult to do, and you'll get crap about it "not being a controlled test". The AF100 (aka GH2, or our closest thing in the test), did extremely well in areas that are more difficult to change with proper lighting. The sharpness was lightyears ahead of the other DSLRs, as was the color and moire. lowlight noise and highlight blowout can be controlled with a good lighting setup. Moire and color problems (like the DSLRs had) are far more permanent to the camera. that's why I'd classify the GH2 as a DSLR2. It's second-generation DSLR video, and I hope Canon and others come up with competitive offering soon. The more awesome cameras available, the better.
  • jamesgh2jamesgh2
    @LPowell

    I hope you are wrong on this, Zacuto & Kessler who paid for this, make a ton of cash from DSLRs hence why they included 4 in the test. The rental houses pimped all the gear so they can show that DSLRs are no good and their expensive rental wares are, your thesis might be spot on there.

    What it clearly showed was how crappy the 1D Mk4 is in video, pretty horrid.

    While many companies would love DSLRs to go away I don't think that can be done anymore. The Genie is out of the bottle and a 5D without video would be probably ignored compared to what the Mk II sales numbers did. Video did this camera a huge favor.

    Now what they might do is add the expensive features like better codec, HDMI out, HP jack, monitoring, zebra and peaking to only the highest priced cameras. Crippling the low end. At least we have a GH2 to show it can be done right at least in the scaling dept.
  • EOSHDEOSHD
    Why would two companies who make so much money from DSLRs torpedo the revolution? That to me doesn't make any sense at all. Zacuto and Kessler have done more to support the DSLR revolution than Canon themselves. And Canon have 200x the cash and resources to do so. When Canon pulled their funding from a well known DSLR event in London earlier this year, it was a third party manufacturer who filled the gap.
  • BraamokievBraamokiev
    Now people will make the difference between real and fake blogs that are just to make us buy crap. Bravo and thank you to Vitaliy, EosHD, Kae LPowel. No more Zacuto dollar and other vendors in disguise
  • AmandaNLAmandaNL
    Regarding "professional" camera's, I do not consider the Nikon D7000 a professional camera. It's in the same price range as the GH2.
    The Canon's they used are 2 to 3 year old technology....
  • LPowellLPowell
    If I had to hazard a guess, I'd imagine Zacuto is seeing the market for their DSLR rigs rapidly drying up. The Zacuto Stinger DSLR shoulder mount is priced at $3000, literally ten times the Buy-it-Now asking price for competing knock-offs from the Far East. While Zacuto's reputation and build quality are sterling, a shoulder mount that costs more than the DSLR itself is not an easy item to sell. By contrast, the $3500 price of Zacuto's FS100 Filmmaker shoulder mount is not so hard to justify as a professional-quality supporting scaffold for a $5-10,000 videocamera system. If I were in Zacuto's shoes, I'd put my efforts into cultivating the low end of the pro market rather than the high end of the consumer market.
  • bwhitzbwhitz
    +1 @LPowell

    I think this is exactly what is going on...

    I think we're going to start hearing allot more of "our rigs are made for 'proper' video cameras" talk in the next few months.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    @LPowell

    I almost agree.
    In upcoming months we'll see USA manufacturers pushed in the top segment.
    I already see signs of sales drops, especially in entry segments.
    They could compete on top using better design (still making most items in China).
    But from my talks I can only conclude that Chinese manufacturers care about their clients more.
    And iterate faster.

    @bwhitz

    My view of AF100 and FS100 segment is simple - it is dead end.
    Good cash cow making perfect instruments for many niches.
    Most probably we'll see this segment as simple remakes, like GH4 in a differen mody with two XLR inputs.
  • BraamokievBraamokiev
    @LPowell
    @Vitaliy_Kiselev
    @bwhitz


    That's right! Good analysis. farewell Zakuto and welcome China!
  • EOSHDEOSHD
    Steve Weiss has now said why the GH2 wasn't included.

    "Bob Primes picked the cameras and he chose not to pick the GH2 based on Panasonic's advice that they would rather have the AF100 in the test. Panasonic was at the test."

    So there you have it, Panasonic didn't want it competing with the AF100 and this is why... http://www.eoshd.com/content/549/panasonic-gh2-af100-pixel-peeped-af100-loses

    And indeed Steve Weiss is also right about the true purpose of the test. There is no 'best camera', only the right camera for the job. Let's not read too much into who wins and who loses. It's supposed to be educational and entertaining if anything.
  • Brian202020Brian202020
    The same could be said about Canon as well. They had 3 different camera's in the test, but they were all different camera sensor sizes, so they all appeal to different people for that reason alone. Canon probably didn't wan't the 60D or the T2i tested because there is a good chance the image quality is very very similar (same, little better, or a little worse) to the 7D. Just like Panasonic they didn't want to hinder the sales of there higher priced camera's. A small part of me agrees with Panasonic and Canon to exclude these camera's such as the GH2 and T2i. They are Prosumer camera's that appeal to different people. The AF100 is a true video camera, ND wheel, SDI, etc. The 7D is a professional DSLR, that is waterproof, has more Mega pixels, has more ISO options, etc. They are both afraid that people will base there buying decisions on image quality and price alone, where as there is so much more to consider. I just ordered my GH2 to replace my GH13 as a B camera, but my AF100 will always be the A camera for me.
  • EOSHDEOSHD
    Well put Brian. It makes sense. But for entertainment and information purposes it would have been nice to see the strengths of the GH2 versus, say, an Alexa.
  • No_SuRReNDeRNo_SuRReNDeR
    Well here's the rub if you ask me...Poor people like myself cant spend 5k on a camera. When you compare the Af100 to the GH2 the differences are so minimal that the price difference isn't justified. I got an XlR adapter/ ND filters/ and stabilization platform (35 dollar opteka) for about 160 bucks. That's all the after market you"need" to get it the same critical features. Not counting the second lens I bought I only spent $1200 bucks with the 14-42mm so...vs the $4500 of the AG AF100 without a lens.....well I'm no math wiz but Id say that's an EPIC WIN. I love the fact GH2 is under the radar and with the hack this win gets better and better...
    Plus I have an EXCELLENT camera for photography.
  • Brian202020Brian202020
    @EOSHD

    Good point, but bottom line is even if the GH2 has little better image quality than the AF100 it's not by much, so you can get a rough estimate by going off the AF100's results. For me that is close enough.

    @No_SuRReNDeR

    I hear what you are saying, but in order to be equal you would need a HDMI to HDSDI converter, a way to record better audio, a rig of some kind to mount all the accessories, etc. Even if you do all this, the complication of the rig and not having audio and image in sync for some people might not out way the simplicity of a true video camera. The ability to change ND in under 1 second for me is priceless. I'm not saying the GH2 is a bad camera, I'm just saying there are a lot of people that don't look at the bigger picture. And for people like you who don't need the extras like I do, you are lucky to have such an amazing option available to you at an amazing price.
  • No_SuRReNDeRNo_SuRReNDeR
    @ Brian202020 I know my comment comes off as "ameture-ish" but the truth is I too would love to have HD SDI,an ND filter wheel,phantom powered XLR etc.... I was actually hoping to get a RED Scarlet 3k but since it suffers from being a "vapor cam" I decided to go this route in order to be able to shoot in the interim. Don't get me wrong I totally agree with you, I just cant afford 5 or 6k to have an HD video setup at the moment.I think an important factor in my decision was that I have a photo camera/and B cam regardless of it remaining as a primary video solution for me.
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