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Rode NTG-2 with Zoom H4n problems, choosing alternatives
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  • tonalttonalt

    Zoom H4n + MXL FR-300. Input level 100, 4 channel mode. Speaking and "singing" one meter away from mic, which is pointing directly at me.

    What you think? Is the volume way too low?

    4CH018I.wav
    4M
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Sounds pretty ok, I do not see much noise.

  • peaceonearthpeaceonearth

    @tonalt thanks for sharing this sample. sounds pretty good, way far better than the NTG-2. Was it outside or in a room? (and which language is it?)

  • tonalttonalt

    @peaceonearth in a pretty quiet room. And it's Finnish ;)

  • peaceonearthpeaceonearth

    I took back the idea of the ME66 ;-) I had a very good offer (310€ net) for a bundle with the K6 including 30days sending back and full money back without declaration of any reason. I know the dealer so it's reliable.

    I will compare it side by side with the NTG-2 first with the H4n to see (hear) what the difference is in real situation. ME66 + K6 is usable without phantom power so it could be usable on the DSLR input too. I know this is no good solution but it works at all in contrast to AT875R or MXL FR 300. I postponed the recorder until I did the mic test. Thanks for all comments & good advice.

  • John_FarragutJohn_Farragut

    @peaceonearth That ME66 + K6 should give great sound with plenty of output level. Nice.

  • JDNJDN

    After doing much research on inexpensive shotguns, I picked up a ME80 on ebay (the black model -- last one produced) and I'm extremely happy. Very directional, picks up incredible distance; but does require a good clean preamp -- the money I saved over buying a more expensive shotgun went toward buying a mix pre-D. I expect to get 20 years out of the mixer and can save up for a schoeps hyper, which is what I really want, some day. I don't see a lot of value though in mid-range shotguns; they are never as good as the top of the line stuff that working sound men have in their bag; for me, you get more quality from a solid mixer -- and you area also assured it will hold its value should you ever decide to sell.

  • WalterHWalterH

    @JDN et al. Definitely. If/as it works for budget and setup, investing in a high-quality pre-amp ala a mix pre-d is great. I look forward to adding that or similar to my overall kit when I can.

  • JDNJDN

    What's nice about the mix pre-d is the usb out, so I use that as my mixing board, run right into the computer when doing scratch v/o. Nice little bonus of the new model.

  • punditpundit

    (re-edited after reading the whole thread!)

    +1 for the Sound Devices MixPre-D. After much research I also bought one about six months ago to use with a Fostex FR2LE, NTG-3 and Oktava MK-012's. The audio quality is top notch with clean quiet preamps, a great headphone amp and proper metering.

    I realise this is quite a few $$$ but in the end I was looking for highest quality setup I could find for a reasonable outlay. Everything else ie. cheaper shotguns, Zoom's, in fact most small combo recorders all had some limitions with either noise, limited gain or battery life. I only wish the Fostex had digital in but the MixPre-D into the line input works fine.

    It's a pity the H4n doesn't have line inputs that bypass the noisy micpre's.

    However here is a suggestion. You can get a Fostex FR2LE from B&H for $599.00 USD

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/432017-REG/Fostex_FR2_LE_FR_2_LE_2_Channel.html

    The preamps will be miles better than those in the H4n. In fact the FR2LE's micpre's are generally well regarded. If you use a Tamiya style R/C battery the Fostex will run for eight hours.

    If you sell your H4n for $150 and you've got yourself a great recorder for under $450.00.

  • MirrorManMirrorMan

    @peaceonearth the NTG-2 works well with the GH2 when you put a battery in it. You just need to get the right cables and adapters (XLR->mini-jack->mini-mini-jack). So unless you need the money there's no reason to get rid of your NTG-2.

    Also, save up for a good field mixer. The Sound Devices MixPre is one of the best audio equipment investments I ever made. You can run the line outs to your zoom and get a good strong, clean signal.

    If anyone wants I can make a test with the NTG-2 and Tascam DR100 just to compare. The preamps are ok, but probably not that much better than the zoom.

  • kellar42kellar42

    I just ordered a Marantz PMD 661 super modded by the Odade brothers, after having had a H4n for a long while, getting it smashed and looking for something a little better. Went back and forth between the Fostex and the Roland R-26, finally ended up on this. Seems like the debates rage every which way. I have a NTG-2 and will be working with some better mikes as well in a couple of weeks, I'll let you guys know how it sounds!

  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp

    @peaceonearth I'm interested to know how the ME66 compares with the Rodes - I've used the ME66 for a few years and it's a superb mic - very low noise, nice clean sound, good directional pickup characteristics.

  • peaceonearthpeaceonearth

    @kellar42 I read about this modification but first of all Odade doesn't ship outside U.S. and I don't want to use a mail forwatd service. Secondly I don't want go the risk of long term handling in case of warranty. Thirdly it is slightly out of buget.. But as I said, I read a enthusiastic review.

    @Mark_the_Harp I have the idea to do a side by side test. I will post result here.

  • muntusmuntus

    It is my understanding that if you run the output from the MixPre(from the tape out, for instance), you can bypass the noisy preamps on the H4N by using the 1/4 jacks. Of course, you should also run a padded line to reduce the signal because it is too hot. Something like this Sescom cable will reduce it 25db. http://www.amazon.com/Sescom-LN2MIC-ZOOMH4N-Microphone-Attenuation-Cameras/dp/B004U3S1JA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1336844988&sr=8-2 This guy did a few different writeups for using the H4N with a MixPre. http://www.danmccomb.com/posts/987/connecting-zoom-h4n-to-sound-devices-mixpre-part-ii/

  • FrameFrame

    As far as an affordable preamp is concerned, especially as an alternative to the ART USB Dualpre mentioned earlier or even -maybe- as an affordable alternative to high-end field-mixers like SQN, Shure or Wendt: Miditech, a german sound company will bring a Mic-preamp called Audiolink III on the market late May. Two channels, 48V phantompower, analog outputs and independent monitoring with headphones. No levelmeters except for peaks, but we could use the GH2´s levelmeters. Originally designed for USB - recording (Like the ART) it could be used as a portable preamp. Price should be around 89 Euros, some shops promise 59 Euros Miditech promised to send me one Audiolink III for evaluation in late May. I will plug it directly to the GH-2 using the audio hacks. Hope I can post a small review in the first week of June. All the best, Frame

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    image

    http://www.miditech.de/site.php4?site_id=218

  • FrameFrame

    Now, Vitaly, that was fast!! Text is also available in english... One addendum: The Audiolink III will be powered via USB. So one needs soldering skills to adapt an USB plug to a 5V power supply.

    Owning a SQN3 competitor called SIE MP323 for years, some brick of aluminium built to last forever, reliable but very big and heavy, I am searching for lightweight alternatives.

    One alternative could have been a mono mic-preamp called "Fame MC-10" or "Fame Mic-10", available at musicstore.de.

    "Fame" ist Musicstore´s own brand and the MC-10 is complete bullsh.. !!!

    Even though phantom power is stated and written on the front panel as 48V, it is only 36V. In the owner´s manual sent with the item, phantom power is correctly stated as 36 V.

    Not in the ads, not on the unit itself. Big blunder.

    Also you´ll get almost full scale afer 1/4 turn of the Input gain knob, so the rest 3/4 turns are lost to ... nothing. I had two Fame MC-10 to check, both had the same flaws, so don´t buy...

    So I hope the Audiolink III will be better

  • tonalttonalt

    @muntus Thanks for the link. He said that when you are using MixPre-D, there's no need for padded line: http://www.danmccomb.com/posts/987/connecting-zoom-h4n-to-sound-devices-mixpre-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-963

    Just buy couple of cables like this: http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=208405970&sellerid=34250053

    Has anyone verified that this works? It's coming clear that you need quality preamp like MixPre-D for quality audio and it's not cheap, so I have no faith for the solution Frame suggested.

  • muntusmuntus

    Yeah, the MixPre-D has some nicer features than the original MixPre, which means you don't pad the line. However, if you already have the H4N and a mic, it's easier on the wallet to get an old used MixPre and the padded line than to fork out the big bucks for the newer model.

  • tonalttonalt

    @muntus Easier said than done. Keyword "MixPre" @ eBay -> 0 hits.

  • muntusmuntus

    @tonalt I had to stalk ebay, super creepy style. And it does seem like there are less Sound Devices products on ebay than there were six months ago. However, if you keep checking, you might find one with a Buy It Now price of $400. You just have to check it constantly.

    Also, just because you know how to properly spell things, don't assume for one second that sellers do. This auction is labeled as a "PreMix" http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sound-Devices-PreMix-/320902702744?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab74aa698

    Other key words for searches should include "sound devices" "mixpre" "mix pre", etc.

  • spacewigspacewig

    For those of you interested in DIY I am currently working on a low cost solution to this exact problem, i.e. a portable preamp for shotgun mics to bypass the lousy one's that come standard on most portable recorders.

    The preamp would be powered by a 9v battery, have phantom power, be transformer balanced to ensure lowest noise performance and have unbalanced 1/4 and 1/8 outputs.

    I have built one and it is very quiet offering 60db of gain (probably way too much for personal recorders which usually have a nominal -10 input). I am presently working on the power supply which is basically a voltage multiplier circuit. Criterias I'm aiming for are low noise and low power consumption. Parts (high quality) should cost around $100.

    If there is sufficient interest perhaps we can start a new thread and I can post schematics, PCB layout, etc and we can develop this collectively (open source pre, ha, what's the impedance on that?)

    Cheers!

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    The preamp would be powered by a 9v battery

    How about external Sony batteries (like F550)?

  • RamboRambo

    @peaceonearth, I use the ME66 and K6 combination with the H4n, I can run the recorder at very low input settings as that shotgun has such high output on phantom or internal battery. Nice price, you got it for, I paid around $1000 many years ago including Rycote Softie.

    You should be very happy with it for many years, awesome quality product and also works great direct into the GH2 with the new Palalias audio settings 1 or 2.

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