100Mbps Flow Motion v1.11 Failsafe Patch with HBR 25p & 50p modes

proaudio4

I agree, but I certainly hope this discussion continues. This topic regarding levels and software differences is important.

Granted, you're right about individual workflow, but there some users that have it wrong and may not realize the differences.

DrDave

Actually, it is important to know whether the software resamples the video. According to Avid, it does "In the Avid system black is mapped to 16 and white is mapped to 235 (on an 8-bit scale). This is standard for both 601 and 709 color space"; according to some Avid users it doesn't. It may takes some digging to get to the bottom of it, but not everyone can be right about whether the video is or isn't resampled. My favorite quote from the Avid website on this topic "why the color bars look different" is "For more information please visit the Adobe website." I for one would like to find an NLE that does not do anything to anything. just for reference.

towi

@DrDave

"Actually, it is important to know whether the software resamples the video. According to Avid, it does"

Could you please point me to the respective quote. NOT the page you've quoted above where the topic is how to import computer generated color bars. Apparently you did not understand anything from this thread. That's okay! No problem at all! But do you guys really think you can look at a knowlege base of a complex software you don't know and you don't use, pick up the first randomly searched comment that seems to treat the respective issue and then you know how the software works? Rediculous.

@Zaven13 (thanks for your post!) and @proaudio4 are right - if you want to discuss this issue, please start a new topic.

DrDave

More from Avid "601 is the broadcast NTSC color space where black is 16 and white is 235 for 8-bit images.

RGB uses the full available colorspace where black is 0 and white is 255.

The import dialog allows the user to specify the colorspace of the file to be imported. (Avid systems always use 16 for black and 235 for white for the OMF / MXF media file that is created as a result of the import operation).

So, when importing a file with RGB levels, the Avid system will crunch it down to 16-235.

When importing a file with 601 levels, the Avid system will leave the color levels unaltered." Hope that helps.

towi

No it does not help. Please start a new topic.

v10tdi

What the hell...why don't we just start a new topic for 100Mbps Flow Motion v1.11 Failsafe Patch with HBR 25p & 50p modes

Rambo

Vitaliy, Flowmotion is now 11 pages long, should it not close off and start series2 thread like the driftwood patches.?

LongJohnSilver

In a normal forum, users like @LPowell, @Stray, @Towi would have been warned and eventually banned hundred of messages ago. No matter who you are and what you have done, it's a question of netiquette and education toward the other users.

@Vitaliy_Kiselev has cleaned threads and cancelled messages many times. It's time to move all the messages "import workflow" related to a brand new thread. So it will be useful to all the other users.

Bye

Stray

It was lpowells thread for settings he created. He started the derail, when he posted a correction workflow which others of us knew were based on an incorrect premise. I wouldn't have posted what I did if I didn't see other people posting worried that their workflow was wrong, when it probably isn't. In hindsight lpowell maybe should have posted his correction suggestions in another thread, but its his thread really for feedback/tests on his flowmotion settings and his call. As it goes, there is another thread for that discussion now, and I think that its run its course already.

jam

First, good luck to lpowell for his surgery. Second, this post begins to remind me of Wallace Sayre's Law," "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the stakes at issue--that is why academic politics are so bitter." I see no reason for lack of civil discourse, and no excuse for rudeness. I begin to understand the protagonist in Lonesome Dove who "Can't abide rudeness in a man"

Out of place in this typically informative forum gentlemen.

peternap

First, best of luck with the surgery lPowell.

Second, while the discussion about color profiles is interesting, it is taking away from this patch which has a lot of potential and the nonstop bickering is getting old!

mrbill

Screen grabs from interview shoot last week - ungraded, nostalgic, -2,0,0,-2, 1080 25p HBR, contax zeiss 50mm 1.7

sebasp1

great screen mrbill, they look very nice!

flaschus

@LPowell does gh1 do this also? full swing..

on a lighter note,

I LOVE THE ARGUMENT... if u dont fight 4 what u believe in, what do u believe in?

duartix

@Zaven13 : Amen.

@LPowell : Best of luck, and thanks for the assistance, you've been a great help!

djhessler

@LPowell I love flowmotion, my question is, is it possible to simply lower the bitrate of FSH/SH AND FH/H and make HBR and 60i span? or is it more complex than simply change these numbers? I would love to be able to have spanning with all my settings with Transcend 10 SDHC cards. Thanks

LPowell

@djhessler At high bitrates, spanning is both hard to guarantee and time-consuming to test. In 24L, FH, and H modes, I was able to use Trick Mode to insure spanning at 50Mbps bitrates on Class 10 SD cards. Since Trick Mode does not occur in 24H, FSH, and SH modes, I was only able to verify spanning in those modes when using 95MB/sec UHS-1 cards.

djhessler

@LPowell thanks for your quick reply, I thought it would be as simple as lowering the bitrate to make it span, the thing I hate about the trick is that there is no way of knowing when the card is full, and in long shots (weddings) I really need to know when my card is getting full, I guess I can always switch to 24H and get an idea, thanks again @LPowell. By the way, I notice less aliasing with your patch, was that on purpose or it's just a plus?

towi

@LPowell

I hope your recovery goes well!

FYI ...

Today I've developped a theory (to be more precise: I simply had a sudden inspiration...).

It's outlined here: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/54292#Comment_54292

I don't know wether or not it is true... however I've got GOP3ZILLA spanning with these tables applied on SanDisk 30MB/s cards (16GB).

Apparently a lot of things contribute to a setting's abilty to span... but maybe these tables help to improve it.

To verify further I've applied the follwing settings to your Flowmotion 1.11 patch:

1080p24 GOPx2=6
1080i60 GOPx2=12
1080i50 GOPx2=12
720p60 GOPx2=24
720p50 GOPx2=24

With these settings applied Flowmotion spanned in HBR/25p mode. The scene shot for testing required Flowmotion to produce an average video bitrate of 52M.

edit: attched the modified setting

LPowell

@towi Interesting idea on spanning, I'll run some tests with Class 10 SD cards. In previous tests, I saw Flow Motion v1.11 span reliably in 24H mode with UHS-1 95MB/sec cards, but not with Class 10 cards. (24L mode spans reliably with either type of card.)

Are you sure about setting 720p modes with GOP-6 to 24? That is four times the GOP-length, while the default GOPx2 setting of 60 is only twice the default 720p GOP-length of 30.

towi

@LPowell

"Are you sure about setting 720p modes with GOP-6 to 24? That is four times the GOP-length, while the default GOPx2 setting of 60 is only twice the default 720p GOP-length of 30"

ups, NO! They have to be set to 12 each ... I've confused things because in interlaced modes it's 4 times the GOP (so twice the fields in a GOP). Many thanks!

Would be cool if these settings would contribute to a setting's ability to span...

mrbill

Just for the stupid (that's me) will flowmotion span for pal HBR users? (30mb/s hd extreme sandisk cards)

LPowell

In my testing, HBR mode spanned properly with UHS-1 95MB/sec SD cards, but not with Class 10 30MB/sec cards. Class 10 cards will span in 24L, FH, and H modes. Unfortunately, Panasonic chose not to provide a low-bitrate version of HBR mode.

mrbill

Thanks - hope you're recovering well

Gerald

A low-bitrate version of the HBR (high bit rate) mode? roflol

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

Tags in Topic

Top Posters