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Panasonic DC-S5 - expensive APS-C camera in disguise
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  • New article made by Panasonic marketing department on DPReview

    Panasonic told us that the S5's autofocus has been improved by a number of fundamental changes. Part of it comes from improved subject recognition. This is based on deep learning (an algorithm trained to recognize specific types of subject) which helps the camera know what to focus on and to not refocus away from it. For instance, teaching the algorithms to recognize human heads when they're looking away means the camera understands it doesn't need to find a new subject or refocus when the face it had recognized suddenly 'disappears.'

    Another part comes from re-writing the AF code to make better use of the available processing power. During the development of the S5, Panasonic's engineers discovered they didn't have to lean on the machine-learning trained algorithms for both subject recognition and movement tracking: they could combine the machine-learned recognition with their existing, faster, distance and movement algorithms, which freed-up processing power to run the process much more frequently.

    Finally, other software improvements allowed the entire AF system to be run faster: providing more up-to-date information to the processor. The combined result of these changes, for stills shooters at least, is much improved autofocus with less reliance on the trial-and-error hunting of contrast detection AF. This, in turn, reduces the focus flutter in the viewfinder, making it easier for a photographer to follow the action they're trying to capture, so you get an improved experience as well as improved focus accuracy.

    To be short - for our practical purposes Panasonic AF did not improved in years.

    All Panasonic flaws come from the time of private agreement and ditching their own sensors. Sony saw the fundamental weakness, so included point requiring Panasonic not to use phase based AF in the supplied sensors. Such way famous DFD came to existence from the deep areas of the brain of their marketing department.

    I know that people inside Panasonic told them that they need to license and make their own (as Samsung and Sony did) dual pixel like AF for all new sensors. But top management wanted to save their face at all costs (very important in Japan!) and not to show that they made big error.

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  • I know that people inside Panasonic told them that they need to license and make their own (as Samsung and Sony did) dual pixel like AF for all new sensors. But top management wanted to save their face at all costs (very important in Japan!) and not to show that they made big error.

    They should have learnt from the "IBIS is not needed, OIS is much better" days - after they finally gave up of that stubborn attitude it became a big selling point to Panasonic.

  • @MarcioK

    As far as I know IBIS appeared only after some of the people left the company and also one other guy who remained lost most of his influence.

    Face is super important thing in Japan (and China), if boss said 5 years ago that IBIS or PD AF are not required - it can't tell opposite. Only reason can be if almost all market starts doing so, but even in such case company must take big delay and also establish special complex process so this same boss on some big meeting could proclaim new approach and at least 4-5 people who will talk after him must publically tell how right he is and that he always wanted to do this but due to some bad small unqualified people down the hierarchy he couldn't do it.

  • Let's hope also people that want to continue to sell those cameras at over inflated price will eventually leave...

    The S series is not by any means a bad camera, just the price makes no sense for Panasonic as they are the late comers to the FF party. They need to sell camera bodies at very low and attractive price, it's the only way to create the customer base to then sell high margin lenses. But it seems they prefer to extract every single cent from any (few) camera they sell. Not a smart move in my view; yet I still consider Panasonic the best choice in terms of quality and reliability over Sony, Canon and so on.

  • @gaman

    Let me explain why low prices are now impossible for Japanese camera companies.

    First - profits and high margins now are main indicator of good management in all of them. So, if you try to do opposite - it will be instant and big attack. Also note that to reach low price you need to significantly lower internal cost estimates for all components. And it is almost impossible, as in this case you will need to start firing lot of people who sit on their place since the time cameras sold in 10x of present amount.

    Second - look at Olympus, they use special company to destruct organization as it allows management to save face and to keep all typical Japanese "nice way". So it is impossible to just make big drastic cuts without instant morale change and organization consequences. To the last companies try to make some horizontal moves, find way to organize early retirements and such.

    Third - no one cares about even next quarter, I am not talking about next year. Low prices are only possible if you have long planning.

    Forth - all dealers and shops push for higher prices as they hope to get more cut from it. Influencers also 99% push and constantly tell that price is too low, even for $4500-6000 bodies (not publically) as each of them think that they will be lucky to be last on the sinking ship and higher price will allow to increase income during selling of free body and lenses.

  • Part of me still wants the S5 even with it's flaws. When I pixel peep I find the IQ of the Panasonic S1 to be some of the best, so figure the S5 will be the same. I don't know if it's due to a lack of phase detection or Panasonic has some talent in the IQ department. Anyone have some opinions on that? I really wish AF and the EVF were better and I would have preferred FF 60FPS. For lack of those I'm hoping for a price drop.

  • "The efficiency of the image stabilization is very similar to Sony A7III". This is crazy, the A7III has the worse IBIS. If the S5 is similar, this is bad ...

  • Low-light 10bit V log 4K ISO400 test video, at night

  • I've done a few videos on the S5. I bought it with concern I might regret it but to the contrary I'm happy with it. The contrast focus is much improved and I find some of its positive points outweigh the negative for me. Here is a video on Linear focusing which is great.

  • I bought it as well. Image quality is stellar and IBIS is great, I watched a lot of S5 reviews on youtube, some of them are full of bullshit, obviously biased.

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  • @yaz72 Do you have any update on the stabilization VS the A7III?

    Also, what are the powering options for this camera? Are DC couplers available? Can it be powered from USB without a battery in the compartment? I know that there is no contest vs the A7III phase detection, but since all my lenses are manual I am starting to consider this model.

  • I can answer some of your questions. Yes, there is a DC coupler coming. You need a battery installed for the usbc to work. Personally, I'd go with the coupler far more robust connection. AF is much improved, but MF is still the way to go sometimes, I'd say watch some of my basic videos like my Linear focusing above. I do some plodding around with the stabilization and I'd say it's pretty good. I'm about as far from ninja walking as you can get in my videos : )

  • @Scot thanks for the useful information. I did watch your video about linear focusing and find it very interesting how far they have come along in that area. Part of the reason I stayed with manual lenses was because linear focusing by wire was so unpredictable before.. and still is in many other cameras/lenses.

    I know about focus peaking, but in the A7III there is a useful feature to help with manual focusing: The user can "punch in" the image, I believe x4 or x7 times, even while recording, to accurately focus by closely looking at edges and such. Is there a feature like this on the S5?

    Lastly, and this is an impossible one: Can the S5 (or S1 for that matter) able to APS-C crop on the fly? basically.. while recording? Thanks!