And the incorrect declaration on cameras was nothing more than choosing the wrong import code - and it was completely appropriate for them to correct the error vs forcing users to do it.

Did not get meaning of this set of words.

I repeat again - unqualified personnel imposed fees due to wrong declaration and CEO covered this, even after being told directly. It is long story as I had personal "pleasure" to see work of this same person.

Instead of relying on a bunch of professional users and amateur enthusiasts in the facebook group to give them feedback on what they want in a camera, they should blindly follow the suggestions of a person who doesn't even seem to shoot anything ever. :)

I hope you mean yourself here? :-)

I told that making warm closed group at Facebook is one of the worst ever decision such company can do. As not only it greatly restrict input, but it also distort reality as you can't get proper honest feedback.

BM forum can be not best place, but at least they made one after I repeatedly told them that it is stupid to have your forum to be owned by your direct competitor (again, people who responded for this had no idea about it).

The facebook group is a joke. I immediately unfriended myself. It seems to be about 99% fanboys. An open forum would be far more user friendly...and knowledgeable....but I'd bet 10bucks they chose fb cause it was free. Of course, it is far from free. I still think it's a mistake to try to release 3 cameras at once, or even 2. Sony doesn't even do it. Of course, what do I know....actually alot about engineering. Just cause these cameras have the same form factor, although, and more importantly not the same physical nor same sensor size, doesn't mean that they don't need separate design and software teams. And I doubt they have that going for them. It's all a bit surreal...but if you've paid 2 grand of your hard earned cash, you might be persuaded to see some reality tv. I'd pay a buck to see their facilities.

@kurth Why would they need a completely different software (or hardware) team if the main difference between the cameras is the sensor?

@Vitaliy_Kiselev Yes, I'm clearly the one of the two of us who doesn't ever actually seem to shoot anything so obviously that is what I meant.

But otherwise, you're right. Using one of the most high-traffic sites on the internet to host their user group (currently about 2500 members with way more daily active users than this one) is crazy vs hosting some shitty forum themselves - which is what they were doing when the E1 shipped (and the forum barely ever had any users at all).

And of course, you're also right that instead of asking their users what features they would like to see in a new camera and then building that camera, they should take your advice and just make a really cheap camera with a super low-bitrate codec (which they will apparently do by removing a $10 ethernet port from their $699 camera to make it a $499 camera) so that you can give them to the teams that you send to various camera shows. If they don't make exactly the camera that you (and pretty much only you) need/want, their company will go out of business within a year.

I understand what I'm talking about just fine, thanks.

I never said we need to support anybody. If the product is good, we should get it. If the product is crap, we should not. I hated the E1. I like the E2 a lot. If they come out with a 6Kp60 follow-up which is of equal quality and at a decent price, I will like it a lot too and probably buy it - and others are likely to do so as well.

It seem that 4K 120FPS is true progressive and not PsF like 1080P 120FPS : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BuyMNKPnMAO0HmojpONDCOUX8dnzsoN4/view?fbclid=IwAR3gd_qEr2cJynFoTyJelMMWQTqbVcXv6M3CesLI5Q-6c2m8MAsrCO4yMbE

Very impressive !

@kurth Jason has already said that 95% of the code is shared between the E2 series cameras already. The camera runs Linux. A number of low-level things (wifi/ethernet/etc) are handled by the OS. The camera-specific stuff is handled by an executable. I haven't gone in and looked in a while, but from what I remember, the startup script for that executable already tells it that it's using an IMX299 processor - so presumably it was built from the start to be flexible about which sensor it is talking to. I am a software guy and I can say that if software is properly designed, there's no reason that it can't be modular.

Think about what the camera does - at a high level, it reads data from a sensor, debayers it, and applies a color correction matrix (I get that there's a bit more that's going on, but that's the general gist). That's sensor-specific. Which other part of a camera's software would need to be changed to work with a different sensor?

"Cameras aren't plug-n-play" is a silly statement. At some point, computers weren't plug and play. Now they are. Now cameras are also computers, but they can't also be made flexible?

Oh yeah - those guys put some pictures in the group. Their underwater housing looks crazy impressive!

@jleo

Yep, this is that this form factor is made for.

Most funny is that our most heated debates with Z-Cam had been exactly as they DID NOT want to aim multi camera market. And DO NOT want to spend neccessary resources on their apps.

@eatstoomuchjam

We talk about different multi camera markets.

Z-CAM design came from people who know a lot about multi camera work from VR cameras perspective mostly, and also from perspective of virtual camera solutions (multiple cameras and later using computation to make virtual camera footage), hence all the SDK they have and such. I can also count some industrial camera usage (Z-CAM had some talks about shipping to such areas, but I do not know if it had been any success yet).

Also please stop adding your thoughts and telling that it is mine. Proper smartphone apps are important, but much more important is understanding how consumer related camera must look like now, how it must behave. How important are software features, remote control, easy consumer level work with many cameras.

Z-CAM management is afraid about proper path, as they are afraid about changes in the company and possible changes in management that will follow. Change of direction could add managers who can manage large software teams and work with feedback outside closed facebook group. I think some of their actions are unconscious.

I know that is going inside some Japanese companies and it is similar thing. Old management is afraid, want to stick to things where they are good, where it is safe. yes, it is worse and worse, but at least managers keep their positions. This is thing they are fighting for. This tensions will release in fall of few Japanese giants soon and whole industry will turn. Will be lot of pain and change of 80% of management.

@eatstoomuchjam

Here we go again. I am not asking you to respond to anything, it is exactly you who started from direct personal attacks.

I wrote things not about experience, but about why people do things they do. And first thing management system is doing is trying to keep stability and current course to save or improve their position.

@eatstoomuchjam and @Vitaliy_Kiselev, it's very interesting to watch this holy war, but it's better to understand each other. Sorry, I'm not very good at English (I'm Russian). Well, just want to clarify something.

First of all, I don't know any of you, so I can and will speak only in the abstract and apart from your personalities. I'm interested in the subject area of the discussion only.

@Vitaliy_Kiselev, you said "Z-CAM management is afraid about proper path" - what path do you mean? Appealing to the manager's past experience makes sense, but does not prove anything, let's be honest.

@eatstoomuchjam, I think, that there is no reason for Black Magic to make a mobile app. How do you want to use this app with BM cameras? Z-Cam E1 form-factor, for example, dictates the need for wireless control - imagine the situation, where E1 lays, for example, in a microwave oven. How can you start/stop recording without wireless control? :D

Blackmagic does have an app for their cameras: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/blackmagic-camera-control/id1239292847

It works with the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K, Ursa Mini Pro, and Ursa Broadcast.