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Choosing Audio Kit Value for Film (indoor) $1000
  • Peter123456Peter123456

    I want to maximize audio quality for my budget of $1000. My plan is to get a Zoom H4 ($100 used), a Sound Devices MP-1 ($400) or maybe a Naiant Tiny Box preamp ($300), an Oktava MK012 ($300) hypercardioid mic. I will bypass the Zoom preamps by using the ¼ inch inputs coming from the preamp. I will probably have to pad the cable from the preamp at 15db, since the Zoom assumes a consumer -10db line level, while most preamps output a +4db line level.

    Do you guys think this is the best value I can get for around $1000? I really can’t spend any more than that. Should I just get a better recorder and ditch the preamp? Also would be interested to hear opinions on Tiny Box vs MP-1. Your advice is appreciated.

  • 19 Replies sorted by
  • Jean71Jean71

    Lol, damn missed question mark, i always get caught by these threads :)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Peter123456

    This one is simple

  • Peter123456Peter123456

    Wow, @Vitaliy_Kiselev, you would pair a $40 mic with a $500 recorder? I already have a $150 Rode Videomic (not pro). Do you think that $40 mic is better than what I have? I keep quoting prices because all the forums seem to say “You get what you pay for when it comes to audio.”

    Also, I have read that, as long as you bypass the Zoom preamps, it does a fine job paired with a good external preamp. This would also give me a nice upgrade path: preamps do not get any better/cheaper over the years, but recorders do. The MP-1 would hold its value over ten years, do you think the Tascam 680 would?

    I may have to just pull the trigger on that $40 mic!

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Also, I have read that, as long as you bypass the Zoom preamps, it does a fine job paired with a good external preamp. This would also give me a nice upgrade path: preamps do not get any better/cheaper over the years, but recorders do. The MP-1 would hold its value over ten years, do you think the Tascam 680 would?

    Yep. It is already $399 in Amazon used department (read open box). But in fact your nerves and time cost more. And all this mike->preamp->recorder stuff can be good on large set, but if you are alone or small it add up issues. I just do not like it. Plus extra channels (with same quality) are always plus.

    Wow, @Vitaliy_Kiselev, you would pair a $40 mic with a $500 recorder? I already have a $150 Rode Videomic (not pro). Do you think that $40 mic is better than what I have?

    Why not? I use also MXL shotgun mike (about $120 no longer manufactured) also. And can live with it. Are they best mikes? Nope. But for my tasks (no bad handling, no water, etc) they work ok.

  • Fran_GuidryFran_Guidry

    In my first testing the new Zoom H6 preamps are much quieter than the earlier Zoom preamps I've tried, like the H4n, H2n, or R16. I would choose the H6 over an H4 and external preamp.

    Fran

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Fran_Guidry

    H6 has many other shortcomings, like weird design, screen that is bad in bright light, non locking connectors.

  • spacewigspacewig

    The Tascam DR-40 is a really good bargain as a line-input recording device. Balanced, stereo or mono, limiter, locking connectors, decent battery life, accurate meter, safety track for mono-recordings... all for under $150. Plus if go pre-amp craps out you can use built-in pres (which are nothing to write home about) with phantom.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    @peter123456 Vitaliy is right on the money, there is no point is buying a bunch of different boxes when the Tascam DR 680 will do the job and more, and will sound as good or better in all respects. People have won Grammys using worse gear than the Tascam 680.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    The Tascam DR-40 is a really good bargain as a line-input recording device

    Problem is that its preamps are worse than DR100 MKII as I remember, and they are not too good either.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    I have the DR40 and now that I kind of know what I'm doing, the preamps bother me. I have to send my sound out to a guy to clean it up since I don't know that much about it. He does a lot of other stuff to the sound but always has to clean up the noise floor and such. Going for the 680 and forgetting about all the rest! :)

  • spacewigspacewig

    That's why I specify "...as a line input recording device." The preamps are horse-shit, like every other affordable portable recorder I've ever come across. I use a SD mix-pre for the gain stage. As a line-level recorder, I think the DR-40 is hard to beat at its price-point.

  • DouglasHornDouglasHorn

    Yeah, I'd go with an open-box DR-680 in a Porta Brace or Petro bag, with a cheap boom pole, and a Rode NTG3 or NT-2 mic. Maybe a Tekken battery if there's any money left. That's a cheap, high-quality sound kit that you can use any day for location sound.

  • DanPVDanPV

    This is an old thread but for the benefit of people who stumble upon it - the new DR-70d for $299 has 4 tracks and excellent preamps and doesn't have the weird handling issues of the H6. It also has the feature of recording a second safety track if the gain on your main track is set too high. The H6 can also record a safety track but it is my understanding that you can only do this with the 1/8" minijack.

    A drawback to the DR-70d is poor battery life but this is easily remedied with a usb lithium (cell phone type) battery pack.

  • Peter123456Peter123456

    Thanks for all the advice, guys. I ended up getting the isk mic, and it's a great value. I also got a zoom h1, then I bought a used juiced link preamp with 2 xlrs. Thats about $250 for very good sound. Unfortunately, the isk needs a lot of gain. The optimal level setting on the zoom H1 is 37 out of 100. At that low level, I didn't have enough juice for the isk, so I got another juiced link to add extra gain. Lots of devices to think about, but battery life is good on all of them, and noise floor is low. However, after all this, I saw a used tascam dr 60d mkii on b&h for 144, and I bought it. Noise floor may be higher, but it's one device instead of three. I can do a test if there is interest.

  • balazerbalazer

    A gain setting of 37 on the Zoom H1 maximizes its dynamic range. But the largest range is not necessarily the optimal range. If your recording has lots of clipping, you'll want to raise the top of the range by turning the gain down. If your recording is very quiet with lots of quantization noise, you'll want to lower the bottom of the range by turning the gain up.

    A setting of 37 is really only optimal in the case when you have an external preamp with a sufficient range of gain settings.

    BTW, one reason to favor the Tascam over the Juicedlink+H1 is because the Tascam has a limiter. Clipping can sound very bad on the H1. If you can't monitor the levels continuously and be sure the gain is set correctly, you'll do better to set the gain a tad higher and let the limiter do its job when the signal gets too high.

    Did you actually observe a higher noise floor from the Tascam than from the Juicedlink, or were you guessing about that?

  • Peter123456Peter123456

    @Balazer, that's a good clarification on the 37 level of the h1. I am guessing that the h1 plus juicedlink has a lower noise floor than the Tascam 60 mkii. I think I will test it now that I have both.

  • Peter123456Peter123456

    Here's the test of the Zoom H1 with Juiced Link versus the Tascam DR60d mkii. I can not detect a difference in quality in regard to noise floor or anything else. Also is a good example of the ISK CM-20C in action.

  • IronFilmIronFilm

    No preamp, as DR-680 preamps are good enough for work (I have one).

    I stumbled across this thread via googling. VK, would you make the same comment about not needing extra external pre amps in the case also of the DR-70D or DR-60D?

  • Peter123456Peter123456

    Robert found some noise on the DR 60D:

    However, I think the preamps in the DR 60d mkii are supposed to be better, and I detected no noise in my test above. I would not see anyone needing external preamps on the DR 60d mkii, unless maybe you are using a dynamic microphone. Not sure about DR 60D.

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