@bwhitz

People who don't get jobs are largely lazy. Let's say 50% of them.

White people are 8% unemployed. Therefore only 4% of whites are lazy.

46% of young blacks are unemployed. Therefore 24% of young blacks are lazy.

How do you expect Ian_T to come to a different conclusion about what people believe? He can't forget basic arithmetic, and some statements simply can't escape the consequences of doing the math.

@cbrandin

Well, my point was... that it could have been an race in that position. The cards were just delt black people in that hand and point in time. Could have been whites, hispanics, asains, whatever. It just HAPPEND to be black people, it isn't BECAUSE of them. That's the racism line...

@Ian_T

Yea I can see how it seemed racist... could have been a poor choice of wording. I just like to give people the benefit of the doubt at first. If they continue... then you tear them apart. ;)

Crap, made an edit and deleted that last part of my post. Basically... the point was, that there is no shortage of un-employed dumb white people in the south. ;)

I think most people confuse life reality with racism.

Racism is if you believe that someone if better or worse because he is born black (white, etc).
I won't go here, just cite that all people are different by their abilities, they are not the same. It depends from parents, food, alcohol, narcotics etc.

Reality is what "all have equal possibilities" is not true.
It is not racism. It is simple reality. If you born in quite poor black family with not so high education, you'll have less chances to compete, get good education, make proper connections, etc.

>"race-x" commits the most crimes, BECAUSE they're "race-x", is racist.

This is also not racist. Simple logic.
Saying that 1 year old blacks commit the most crimes - this is :-)

@Vitaliy and bwhitz

You guys make good points. I guess when it comes to reading stats like these I tend to look at "why" it is like it is. I always say that we should look at the root of the problem.

Vitaliy, that reality you described is true for a lot of people (no matter what color). Historically though if a black, white, Asian or Hispanic person in those situations tried to compete guess who would typically come out on top/bottom? It's not impossible for black folks....it just means he/she has to work twice as hard as their white (etc.) counterpart. This basically describes my wife's situation growing up. Her story is very impressive. To make a long story short just think about every possible barrier black folks in this country has gone through she has been there. Yet...she decided to set the example in her family and managed to reach Suma Kum Lati from UCONN graduate school. She, to me, is a shining example of one who can make it. In the end however...she still struggled to get that "position" on the job. I can't get into how unfair she was treated along the way. But...because of her persistence wouldn't settle for less than what she deserves. Not everyone that was in her situation had the same type of drive. Some are more broken than others.

Not sure if I understand your last point though.

> Generally, war had been result of the accumulated problems and it had been arranged and used as solution.

My stars VK. You've got yourself a great big conspiracy bug up your butt. Heard it before from many angles. And you know what- basically I agree. But

In such issues, as else where, it's all about the power struggles. I'm sure we've all experienced that in our own lives…having to deal with the boss who loves being the boss…and telling everyone what to do and how to do it, with much implied: kiss my ass or you're fired/not on the next show, etc...

War is the result of intolerable situations getting out of control. Some just say-" bomb the fuckers" ...while others may think they're the ones that are out of control.

It's very easy to see this as a racial issue. The numbers present it as such. But there's more going on than just old school crap about "Power" struggles and blame... as the rich get richer and the rest get screwed. We get mangled by distractions that they've produced…and we've helped them in our own deception.

"We don't need no stinkin' badges" because LEFT or RIGHT is the game we're playing against us all.

There's no single way or philosophy or govt. that works for everyone everywhere.

DIVERSITY IS DELICIOUS!

What a load of crap. IQ tests measure only a small area of human capability and it's probably one of the most useless useless areas. There are so many things it doesn't measure that are better predictors of achievement

>>>>>>>>>.

The needs of the masses are starting to out-weigh the production of our society overall. This LEADS to poverty.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<br />
The socalled needs of the masses is the reason we have government and the nation state. What do you think it exists for? To serve the oligarchy?

And you solutions don't sound harsh, they just sound wrong and uniformed. You've got yourself a "Me first" ethic, a major culprit IMHO for the trouble in the world right now. Uprisings in Israel, Libya, UK rioting, that's the backlash against your attitude.

@ you guys,

Wow. Relax already. Or npt. I don't know.

>Being "more compassionate" and "helping each other" are not really going to cut it... it's much bigger than that.

So long as I live... I hope and pray I never believe such drivel.

Shame I didn't take seriously english lessons... But I give it a try. @bhwitz I don't know what is the most scary part of your analysis : the conclusions or the fact that you (and many others I'm sure) genuinely believe it's true... Brrr! Your vision of the "progress" like something of the future that would benefit one day to humanity (level 1 or whatever pseudo-scientific assesment) is... What s that? I don t give a shit of thoses utopian fairy tales : in the end a lonely old genius remain in a spaceship kubrickian way. Useless. if progress don t serve immediatly to raise standart (education, medical, culture, etc) for the majority then all the rest is crap : not darwinism but eugenism. I don t accuse thoses who believe in thoses crap to be nazis, just short minded. Progress for progress without benefit for all is stupid. Maybe it s sellfish to think like that. Good, sellfinesh is good advise sometimes.

And for the racial part : shit don't just happen. If all thoses stats on black people are so negative it s not the result of bad luck (damn how can someone see social reality like that) or the so called "choice" (good/bad) made by thoses who are in such situations - but eh, there s hope cause black love to sing and dance and are going to succeed in our "societe du spectacle"... I Hope its a (bad) joke.

Its just happen that racial reality are crossing social realities. Poor without access to culture (to be short) are going te reproduce their situation. Period. For one story of a self made men (favorite fairy tale in the us; even among the poor for the satisfaction of oligarchy) million of poor and few riches just born/die in the condition of their parents : yeah shit happens, don t born poor (statstically better to not born black then).

Progress of the humanity (or whatever) can only be achieved by raising the situation of the actual people living right now. I m not Keynesian, but Keynes wasn't a sellfish poor thinking for its own good. Maybe he was just a smart sellfish rich who come out to the best (or the least worst) solution to protect his situation. If selfish rich don t want to be generous with the poor (and all the lazy, idiot among them) but are afraid of lumpen proletariat riots, they have to be logical. Build camp (stat of black/poor in prison?) or build school, rebuild welfare state to destroy social inegalities and offer to every genious of tomorrow regardless of their class the chance to succeed - and to the idiot the right to live and be happy too. Damn we re humans, not bugs...

Ps : I don t speak english so yeah major part of what I said doesn t make sense and don t reveal my thoughts (try to resume Bourdieu in chinese!). And debate politics in an unknown language prove that I m stupid in some way...

Ps 2 : @Ian_t europeans ppl don't think this or that about black americans... Some europeans are stupid and/or racist, some aren t, that's all.

@astraban You're right....there are dumb people everywhere. But I speak only of my own experience with the people I've met. I don't trust statistics. In many cases information like that is skewed. And like the media it can be lopsided enough to make a certain group look bad. The sad part about it all is people actually buy into that propoganda crap. Which is why I brought up that story.

@brianluce "A silly dichotomy here. Really. This is ridiculous."

That's only because you don't understand it yet. It's like trying to explain quantum mechanics to a 5th grader... of course it's going to sound ridiculous. But I can assure you, I've thought out many scenarios, and the ones I've mentioned are pretty contradiction-free. I use to believe in Altruism and such... but when dissecting my though patterns, I found many contradictions, leading me to the conclusion (even though it I was afraid of it at first) that those principles were false.

Also, I'm not saying anyone is wrong... it's just different views that lead to different outcomes. Nothing can inherently be right or wrong. So sorry if any of this comes of as personal, it's not meant to be... it's just debate.

@bwhitz
"That's only because you don't understand it. It's like trying to explain quantum mechanics to a 5th grader... of course it's going to sound ridiculous. "
>>>>>>>>>

Unfortunately your personal theory of social evolution isn't quantum mechanics. To the contrary, You've reduced one of the most complicated subjects to an either/or construction of two cliche, sophomoric and clumsy choices. The presumptuousness in your argument is at astonishing levels.

No, you mean you object because he doesn't agree with you. If this logic had always existed we would have never progressed beyond our reptilian brains. Might does not make right. Evolution is about more enlightened, verses naive, standards. The ultimate manifestation of naivete is cynicism, as it is the way that people of limited understanding can feign wisdom. Cynicism = naivete + ugly. We assume that there is a sweetness that comes with naivete - simply not true. No cynic ever did anything to improve the lot of humanity - it's just a cop out. Cynics are just impotent people who are unable to participate in the advancement of humanity, relying instead on notions like "the ends justifies the means". That's cynical, I know - but the only way to combat cynicism is to fold it on on itself.

So, do you have an analytic understanding of quantum mechanics? And does @brianluce have the intellect of a 5th grader? You may want to skate on having said that - but you can't. We have to live with the implications of what we say, not just the overt statements. An unwillingness do do so is passive aggressive.

Chris