Sony A7 and A7r , FF gems, like GH3 but FF

apefos

The dream low light performance and moire aliasing free is what I would like to have also...

So, if you are in a hurry get the 5D3, it is the solution for these things right now. The 720p 60p from 5D3 upscales nicely. If you can wait, maybe Canon will release the 5D4 with 1080p 60p, wifi, dual pixel af in the future...

I suppose there will be a 750D with same improvements, but APS-C and will need some denoise. The 70D sensor cleans pretty good up to 6400 iso with neatvideo.

apefos

Gordon Laing from Cameralabs did the tests to compare the low light noise performance from Sony A7, A7R against Canon 5D3 and Nikon D800e, just download the original files from vimeo (straight from camera) to compare the noise in low light in all isos (navigate in the vimeo pages to find all the 5d3, d800e and a7/a7r low light videos):

http://vimeo.com/user803551/videos

Vitaliy_Kiselev

More samples from same press event

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/sony/7-and-7r/sample-photos-285.html

Aria

It appears the A7r performed very well at ISO 3200 compared to the D800 and 5D3. I would say that it seems like a very solid performer in low light if kept to a reasonable ISO. 5D3 is the best at low light of the 3 at ISO 6400. A7r was still workable with some NR IMO.

My take is that the A7r is a good bargain with it's lower price, good low light, smaller size, super flexible lens mount and 1080 60p.

DrDave

@apefos 5D3 looks good in that comparison.

MikeLinn

apefos

The iso up to 6400 is ok for noise reduction and it seems the DRO function and Contrast settings can increase the dynamic range to a point which can be enough for sun/shadow situations:

http://similaar.com/foto/flaat-5n/index.html

http://similaar.com/foto/flaat-5n/technical-tests-1.html (see the shadows lifting in the waveform increasing dro level and lowering contrast)

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonynex5n/7 (change the dro level to see the dr improvement in the graphics lines)

Vitaliy_Kiselev

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sony_Alpha_A7/sample_images.shtml

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Shooting experience is added to DPreview preview - http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-alpha-7-7r/5

Vitaliy_Kiselev

http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/15/sony-alpha-7-7r-sample-photos/

DrDave

In the addendum to the preview, the author notes that the dials can be used as a combination "shutter and aperture priority mode". This is actually really handy for photography. Looking at the comparison photos on dpreview, there seems zero doubt that this camera out resolves the Canon5D3, particularly in the area of microtextures. A pretty amazing achievement by Sony.

apefos

I downloaded the original mts and mov files from Cameralabs review on vimeo, and I did a denoise with neatvideo. the 25600 from 5D3 after denoise looks like iso 100, no residual noise, no tremble in dark areas, just perfect. but in A7R, the image is noisy in the monitor even at 800 iso, and for professional results 800 iso is the maximum for good denoise. from 1600 iso and above the denoised video trembles a lot in dark areas and it is annoying, a similar behavior we have in denoised GH2. for professional results these sony are good up to 800 iso only. of course you can go up to 6400 denoised, but the tremble in the dark areas does not worth. the denoised results I got from D5200 up to 12800 are much better than these sony. the image is ok up to 800 iso, but it is not a low light cameras.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@apefos

It is interesting results. By idea it is Sony sensor. Sony LSI and Sony camera, so they must know how to make it work best.

And Canon is very far behind in basic sensor manufacturing process.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

tinyrobot

@apefos Will you be putting your tests up?

apefos

@tinyrobot no, i will not upload. you can download the original 1080p videos from vimeo and denoise them in your computer to perceive the quality. the vimeo link is in this topic some posts ago.

best thing would be to have enough money to buy all cameras, so I could get the best from each one. A7 and A7R are great for using legacy full frame lenses, and lots of features... 5d3 is the queen for low light and have magic lantern features...

but if money is a problem, so... just keep using the gh2 and t3i...

I just love to perceive all details from each camera, to know what is possible to do and how much money to pay...

DrDave

@apefos I'm sure the video is better on the 5D3, but the A7R eats Canon's lunch on the photos. Since I do mainly video I'm sure the photos on the 5D3 would be fine, and of course the color is great. So if I had to choose, I would go with the Canon. But the A7R resolves detail that is simply missing from the 5D3 on the photos. Right now I'm just waiting to see if this Panny 4K is real before I buy the next set of cams.