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2K BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera, active m43, $995
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  • kholikholi

    @cantsin

    On any given Alexa shoot the camera's got eight AB batteries and two quad quick chargers, that's minimum battery power for that camera. If you're lucky, you may even get a battery block. It eats batteries.

    It also isn't a traditional video camera, however.

    Eight batteries totaling roughly eight hours of just stand-by time accounts for various different factors on a hot set, including holding for talent, quick relights, staging/blocking with Director, run-throughs/rehearsals, etc.

    That's mostly if you're in a controlled environment. When you move to an exterior location without power, limited time, you begin to feel the need to let camera remain alive so that you can see what you're getting.

    Each battery takes around two hours to charge, but an hour to deplete, if you get that while recording. So the safe amount of battery power would be around eight. That's about eight safe hours you can operate without access to rotating power.

    This is similar to people buying one SSD card (480) but forgetting that if that one 480 goes, you lose all of the footage on it, AND, you should likely offload when you can. A pair of 240s and a third for backup is ideal.

    So, just to clarify, I'm not referring to actual footage captured, but the amount of time a camera's typically on, shooting, outputting a video signal, stand-by, etc.

    Of course, that's just my working experience, and everyone's free to work how they will. =D

    @xenogears

    Viewfactor said that they're looking into a battery grip that works with their cage. For my purposes, I'm only going to own two EN-EL (Is that the model number?) Batteries, opting for external power that charges those batteries while powering the camera.

    Would hope that's what a battery grip did!

    EDIT HERE: @cantsin

    Also, personally, I'm not concerned about battery power, really never have been with any camera. People complaining about the internal battery with the original 2.5K? Baffled me. It's amazing, camera never has to go down, external iDX/V-Lock charges internal.

    Buy power, that's the solution. It was more so if you only want to carry the small batteries, eight is the number I'm guessing would be the right amount.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    @kholi @shian It's likely hard for folks to imagine the work that goes into getting 4hrs of narrative footage without having done it. You're easily looking at a 4:1 or higher work to footage ratio and all that standby, rehearsal and lighting setup time isn't free for the camera department. Thanks for being voices of reason and experience in this thread that's more than a hundred pages deep now, mostly noise.

  • cantsincantsin

    The shooting scenarios you guys are describing are, IMHO, the ones where you wouldn't use a BM Pocket as an a cam. Who would shoot 4 (respectively 16) hours of narrative footage with the Pocket? Blame Blackmagic's marketing for whatever you want, but this is clearly not what the camera has been advertised for.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    @010101 Please do a little research before you post. You comment about outside shooting does not make sense. One could shoot with many cameras outside without an external monitoring source. GH2/3, 5D, C100/300/500. All of these cameras have a viewfinder so your statement is invalid. That's why some of our commenting on the screen. Without an aid, it's worthless outside. Sure, someone will make.something soon but do some research and think about what you are posting please. Have you by chance used one yet?

  • vicharrisvicharris

    @BurnetRhoades +1 as well.

  • kholikholi

    @cantsin

    What was the camera advertised for, if not for cinema/narrative? There are pictures of the camera with a PL mount and Super16 lenses on it.

    I'm not blaming Blackmagic's advertising for anything, just the people that keep making an effort to lump it into one category. It's just a camera, use it for whatever you want, as long as you can outfit it for your purpose, what does it matter?

  • CidCid

    @cantsin "Who would shoot 4 (respectively 16) hours of narrative footage with the Pocket?" I would and probably will since BM aparently solved the "white orb" problem. If people used to follow the company´s advertise for their products this forum wouldn´t even exist!!! As DSLR´s in film sets...

  • vicharrisvicharris

    Yep, that setup they had announcing the camera said cinema Acam if I've seen it.. Not really sure how you can think that's not one of the intentions BM wanted for this camera.

  • shianshian

    Panny didn't market the GH2 as a cinema cam... but we sure are using it as one.

    isn't the name "Pocket Cinema Camera?????"

    It's not "Pocket Documentary Camera" or "Pocket Run and Gun Nature Shooter Camera"

  • caveportcaveport

    I'm not sure that arguing over what the BMPCC camera should or should not be used for is very productive. I'd like to hear about some user experiences from those who own one and have been shooting with it.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    That's the problem @caveport People that have or have used one post their opinion or experience with it and then some jackass comes in and tells them they are an idiot. Then we have situations like this. If you haven't touched one of these, don't slam people that have and that present valid pros and cons of the camera. I had hands on with one, when I did, I posted something that bothered me a little. Is it a deal breaker, nope. But it still bothered me. Then sometime that I'm sure had never touched one comes in saying we're all idiots. Trolling at it's best :)

    Ps, sorry for spelling and grammatical errors.I'm on my phone and it's killing me.

  • shianshian

    my ears were burning, what'd I miss? :)

  • StylzStylz

    Some people are just overly invested in this thread.

    Does anyone know how the audio on this compares to the audio on the gh2?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    It's not "Pocket Documentary Camera" or "Pocket Run and Gun Nature Shooter Camera"

    It is hard to upset you, but most people who buy BMPCC will never shoot any "cinema" stuff. So it'll be mostly "run and gun, cat and dog, bush and doc" :-) And it is really good idea to make product for the goal your customers will be actually using it. You can initially market it as you wish, of course.

  • MRfannyMRfanny

    @kholi iammuc here from BMCuser. that 12v external power supply from that uk seller arrived that was discussed on the viewfactor cage thread. Its about the size of 3 en-el20 batteries lined up, its a really nice small size that fits the size of the pocket. Rated at 3800mAh, 4hours continuous runtime easy on this little thing. Battery indicator is quite usefull. Still waiting on that cheaper 6800mAh battery to turn up. Doing the maths that thing should last at least 8hrs.

  • nomadnomad

    Why is everybody talking about size only?

    I consider weight a very important factor when you go to places where you have to carry the whole stuff on your own back. What about charging in remote places? Can you imagine the size of solar panels you'd need for a Scarlet, not even to mention an Alexa?

    Regarding ads: it's actually quite clever to market that thingy as a "cinema camera" to folks that will never shoot more than kids, cats and dogs. Remember all those ads with the "red carpet" crap selling cheapo camcorders? It's called economy of scale! You can't make such a camera at this price point for a handful of professionals only, you'll need thousands of those buyers who feel like a pro by holding it in their own hands…

  • 010101010101

    @vicharris,

    " ... Please do a little research before you post. You comment about outside shooting does not make sense. One could shoot with many cameras outside without an external monitoring source. GH2/3, 5D, C100/300/500. All of these cameras have a viewfinder so your statement is invalid"

    Does your producer, director, colorist, editor er grip guy know that you are giving them exterior shots relying on that thing you call " viewfinder " on GH2/3, C100, C300, C500 !? Just the fact that you are bagging the GH2/3 with C100/300/500 tells me you don't know much about the viewfinder on GH2!!! According to my research those built in viewfinders are just for quick framing and getting feedback about the recording data from time to time. I know for the fact that all those cameras require proper monitoring for the actual camera roll. Of course one could brave the day and shoot with a Hood viewfinder on GH2 then so can with BMPCC. Take it easy man - you are reaching for the straw here. Let it go ! LOL

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Does anyone know how the audio on this compares to the audio on the gh2?

    As far as I remember video by JuicedLink author Robert Rozak it is not good. Worse than GH2.

  • kholikholi

    @MRFanny

    Yessir! I bought two (2) 4500s. It should also charge the internal battery, so that's enough time for me right now, and then later on I'll add another pair.

    That was a good find by that guy.

  • 010101010101

    I'm not sure what's about BMPCC that creates such tension in discussions. The moment we all agree this is a Tiny, first generation, 1080P, ProRes ( RAW to become ), media hungry, battery guzzler camera that technically was not possible just a year ago - many disagreements would end.

    On the " commercial title" of the camera one could say there has been titles like : Pocket Wizard, Smart Phone, Monster Burger, Dream Team, Magic Carpet, Swiss Chalet, Hummer, ... I don't remember any photographer complained about - " Not Having A Wizard " in their pockets after buying one etc. BMPCC is a 1080p camera. Is it good enough for cinema ? Perhaps, for sure in hands of experts. Would it do it comfortably ? I highly doubt it.

    On the pimped up images of it with all those BIG lenses and support rigs on promo shots - well, some cars put a couple hot girls in bikinis on their show floors and posters too. Hey you never know buying that car may increase you chances of attracting similar girls but that depends on your performance. Is it possible to run the BMPCC as A-cam all rigged up !? depends, who you are shooting for, the scene. the set .... and how insane you are. Just a few months ago people where eagerly shooting HD- H264 with all kinds of PL mounted Zeiss and Cooke on 5D and 7D just because somebody showed them an image and the interweb told them could be done.LOL

    BMPCC with all the told and untold flaws is / will be another great one for the purpose of image making.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    @010101 You really don't know what you are talking about do you? I'll ask again. Have you ever touched a BMPCC? You seem to be so keen on giving people advice but I really don't think you have any real world knowledge. And yes, I've seen people shoot exteriors with a C300, into the sun for a national Chevy commercial as a Bcam. So once again you are wrong. It is done on a professional level. And how do I not know anything about a viewfinder I've used on a camera for a yeah and a half? I've used it many times outside and nailed exposure. Ask Shian if he's ever nailed exposure on his GH2 or Per. I bet they have and it's been done many times. You're giving people advice and telling others they're wrong on cameras you've never touched. You are giving inaccurate advice. Please stop.

  • 010101010101

    @vicharris,

    " ... I really don't think you have any real world knowledge. And yes, I've seen people shoot exteriors with a C300, into the sun for a national Chevy commercial as a Bcam. So once again you are wrong."

    Hah! And I really don't think you have qualifications to judge me ! How about the A-cam on that ad shoot !? Was it shot the same way !? I don't think so. There are not many DOPs out there ready to gamble on their JOBs or bring it down to YouTube levels. Let's see those shots out of that B-cam. Now who's giving people inaccurate advice !? LOL

    " ... You're giving people advice and telling others they're wrong on cameras you've never touched."

    Well, you are definitely wrong about that one because I own two Black Magic Pocket Cinema Cameras now and loving them. I just received my first one back from calibration and sent the second one in. Although the ownership of a device is not necessary for knowledge about that device - and vice versa. I knew a good deal about this camera way before it became real and then while I was waiting for mine I was working with one as a loaner from a good friend ( DOP ) during the orbs hoopla.

    Yes you could be right. And yes there are many reputable professionals out there that have different opinion on the matter - and they could be right also.

    " ... You are giving inaccurate advice"

    In what points I have been inaccurate ?

    You have been trying to make your negative personal opinion about this camera an acceptable fact for everybody - it's not going to work. There are many positive opinions that are just as loud and also as adamant about the awesomeness of this camera. Given, mostly fanboys but some people honestly just find the camera great . I am one of them and I am entitled to my opinion and have the rights to voice my opinion on this site as you do. Please understand that.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @vicharris @010101

    Guys, keep it smooth :-) Keep discussion level, express your opinion, but with less emotions.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    @shian

    Panny didn't market the GH2 as a cinema cam... but we sure are using it as one.

    Yes, the pedantic and semantic arguments against using these cameras in a way that they're perfectly capable of being used (rigged for filmmaking), how their spec sheets beg for them to be used even, have my jaw on the floor each time I read them.

  • 010101010101

    I just voice my opinion about this great camera that I passionately love for walk around shooting, Scene Blocking, Grand Son's Soccer match armed with a 70-210/2.8 stabilized and occasional tight set scenes that no other camera would fit AND give awesome IQ.

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