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AVCHD: Stable settings
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  • parkgtparkgt
    I am back to 3.61 also.

    While I appreciate all the hard work and advancements being made going to 3.62; the tradeoffs are not worth it for me.

    I am not a indie film maker or interested in being on the bleeding edge of bitrate bragging rights. I am just you typical family filmer that wants the best stable settings that span.

    I also like being able to use the Panasonic included Photofun software for transferring from the card to the PC. It allows automatic file naming (numbering) that speeds my workflow. None of the files I produced under 3.62 were recognized, while those produced by 3.61 were.

    Looking forward to further advances and 3.63.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    Guys, while I am ok and quite used to see reactional approach, you have no reason to use 3.61 for normal GOP.
  • ButtButt
    >Guys, während ich ok und ganz verwendet werden, um Reaktionskräfte Ansatz sehen bin, haben Sie keinen Grund, auf 3,61 für den normalen GOP verwenden.<<br />
    right - full consent
    normal GOP is currently the best way
  • skyakskyak
    I was running version 3.61 at 32mbit with no issues at all. Since installing 3.62 with the recommended settings (max 44mbit...no GOP adjustment) I am getting constant card write failures which require battery removal. I have an Accumen Class 10 32GB card. Could be the card..............? I am on vacation right now so I don't have my 3.61 available to revert to.
  • MihuelMihuel
    @skyak
    I think this card but since I'm using Transcend 32GB Class10 and I had no problem with 66Mbits. For 88Mbits camera sometimes froze.
  • proaudio4proaudio4
    skyak, yes don;t rule out the card.
    The best luck I've had so far is with Sandisk Extreme class 10
  • skyakskyak
    OK...now to find one in small town Mexico...ha!!
  • StrayStray
    I'm having no problems with 3.62 with a normal GOP at both 66MB and 48MB as long as I keep the AQ to 1 or 0. I am using a Sandisk Extreme Pro card (which according to the thread on SD cards isn't that great) and I've not had a single write failure, or any problem working with or playing back the footage. I'm happy with what I'm getting, very happy in fact. I am looking forward to the next version of Ptool though, as I have experimented with the AQ set at 4 and it is jaw dropping quality (particularly when it came to grading and CCing it in post). What I'm getting now is better than what I was getting out of 3.61. I guess its very much a case of YMMV. Still its a definite improvement to me, and things will get better, we're all seeing hints of what we could/will get.

    Also, if you are using a normal GOP, surely setting AQ to 0 is going to produce pretty much exactly the same results as using 3.61 yeah ?
  • Angry_CAngry_C
    @Butt,

    man kann seine postings auch im Nachhinein editieren;-)
  • proaudio4proaudio4
    Stray>"Also, if you are using a normal GOP, surely setting AQ to 0 is going to produce pretty much exactly the same results as using 3.61 yeah ?"

    That would be my guess.
    I also agree that AQ4 is absolutely jaw-dropping image quality!

    I'm hoping we eventually are able to find a good setting that allows 24H at 66mbps with AQ4.
    I'm using this now with 3X settings, but I still need to check if the files span OK. I'm hearing it probably does not. I'm using Sandisk Extreme class 10 30MB/s SDHC 32GB

  • ButtButt
    @Angry_C

    yes - why not: each new Ptools come with insights
  • parkgtparkgt
    @Vitaly

    "Guys, while I am ok and quite used to see reactional approach, you have no reason to use 3.61 for normal GOP."

    Wanting spanning and an faster workflow I don't think qualifies as being reactional. I used a GOP of 12 with 3.62 with a Sandisk Extreme class 10 30MB/s SDHC 32GB and did not span and the files were not recognized by PHOTOfun using cbradin's settings suggested on the 16th. I will try the default settings and see if things work better.

    Thanks again for advancements!
  • arvidtparvidtp
    Yeah - I would not say I'm reactionary, I'm just going back to what worked for me for the particular work that i do most often and waiting to see if we can improve later. Now that I have conservative settings I know span when bitrate is driven to the max, and a good setup to test spanning, I'd be happy to test anything anyone with more knowledge than me (ie @Vitaliy_Kiselev, @cbrandin) thinks has a good chance of getting spanning working in 3.62 - or any subsequent update.

    Anyhow, Test results are in - 24H @ 36mbits/sec with ptool 3.61 did not span for me. 32mbit seems to be about the max, at least for my SD card.

    One thought is to maybe have 24L set so it spans and you could shoot in that normally unless you know the shot will be short, then use 24H, which would be set at a higher bitrate. But maybe this is wishful thinking because 24L and 24H I think need to be within a certain % distance of each other - or is that not the case anymore?

    Also just musing - because of AQ and other improvements, potentially the lower bitrate at which clips will span in 3.62 is that same apparent video quality as you get with 32mbits with ptool 3.61? and therefore we're not actually losing anything in 3.62? Just throwing that out there as a possibility.
  • proaudio4proaudio4
    arvidtp >"Anyhow, Test results are in - 24H @ 36mbits/sec with ptool 3.61 did not span for me. 32mbit seems to be about the max, at least for my SD card."

    Hmm..
    You're making me think SD card data rate are also tied to spanning issues more than I thought.
    Maybe it's a function of how fast the SDHC card random writes, not just contiguous data write.
    Using Sandisk Extreme 30MB/s SDHC I had no problem spanning using 3.61 @ 60Mb/s.
    You had issues at 36Mb/s..... odd. Maybe other parameter differences?

    I no longer use 3.61 and have no intention on going back. 3.62 with QA4 looks too damn good to go back to 3.61 LOL!

  • arvidtparvidtp
    huh. and your resulting average bitrates are definitely above 32mbit? Can you post your settings?
  • proaudio4proaudio4
    Like I said I no longer use 3.61. They were Kae's settings, but set to 60Mb/s 6GOP.
    Look at the first post at the top of page 5 here. Kae mentioned he had no issue spanning with 3.61 at 65MB/s.
  • sohussohus
    Maybe the spanning has to do with the blip that has been removed. 3.61 spans but has blip, 3.62 doesn't span and doesn't blip. I have faith that Vitaily can fix the spanning in the next Ptool release.

    For now, I'm using the following settings:
    - 66mbit 24H
    - 32mbit 24L (files span with 3.62, need to test different scenes/motion though)
    - GOP12

    For interviews, I will shoot 24L and B-roll in 24H. No need to flash firmware each time.
  • onedayoneday
    real mess is going on with these settings, maybe we should make the contents and the winner settings to put in one sticky topic with the chart explaining the pros and cons???

    or maybe is too early for something like that....
  • danyyyeldanyyyel
    @Sohus you should post your ini and details like what is your AQ settings.
  • sohussohus
    These are the settings I'm testing now. Some observations:
    - 24H does not span
    - 24L does span (in my limited testing)
    - EX TELE works in 24H/24L
    - Camera profile: nostalgic 0,-2,-1,0

    I hope someone who has been testing longer can also test this setting as I have just started testing and don't have much experience with streamparser so I am not sure how to analyze what I am seeing. Can someone point me at a 'proper' avchd streamparser graph. How should it look?
  • danyyyeldanyyyel
    You have change from 66mbit to 44mbit, is there a reason. I was particularly interested in a good 66mbit 24h mode.
  • sohussohus
    My mistake, I uploaded my 44mbit version. Here is the right one.

    I uploaded a typical graph I see with these settings. This particular one is Kae's Death Chart on my 1080p Panasonic Plasma TV. Is this normal behavior? I don't know what to expect from the B- and P-frames.

    File: F:\PRIVATE\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00008.MTS
    Size = 1.071.194.112 Bytes (5.579.136 Packets)
    Stream: Max Speed = 70.530.620 bps
    Mode = 1080/24pN
    PCR Timing Interval = 0,094 seconds
    Clip Time = 0:02:38,20
    Average Total Bitrate = 54.170.109
    Average Video Bitrate = 52.675.256
    Average Audio Bitrate = 235.016
    Average Other Bitrate = 1.259.837
    Max GOP Size = 3.928.320 Bytes (31.426.560 bits)
    Video Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max)= 24.960 / 280.430 / 1.001.280
    setc.zip
    350B
    3.JPG
    1182 x 220 - 48K
  • danyyyeldanyyyel
    Thanks
  • StrayStray
    @sohus, yes that looks good. I think you'll find though that if you shoot for over a minute, maybe two that the pattern in streamparser may start to get uneven. Try shooting something else other than the death chart for that time length too, a mostly static shot. Theory is that the uneven cadence doesn't actually effect image quality, but we've not heard anything definite about it from Vitaliy or Chris yet AFAIK. I can't see how a large drop in I frame size isn't going to affect the IQ myself but I'm no expert on this at all, so maybe I just don't get it.
  • shriggshrigg
    @sohus

    Looks like a sensible approach to have 24H at 66 and 24L at 44, that way if the camera freezes you can reboot and switch to 24L with no reflash necessary. Aside from the benefit of spanning, that 44mbps 24L setting gives me confidence that I won't be caught with a non-functional camera on a shoot for hire. Clients just wouldn't understand, lol
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