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Proper democracy
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Highest form of democracy is not one that provides freedom for dissidents or alternative opinions. It is one made to organize people life in such a way that they have no need in dissidents or other opinions, to fully kill demand for them.

    A. Zinoviev

  • 33 Replies sorted by
  • svartsvart

    While it sounds good, the pure definition of democracy doesn't allow this to happen. If everyone has equal say, then there can be no decision made because all alternate opinions will cancel each other out. If one strives for no dissidents or alternate opinions then the only true form of this is anarchy. :)

  • arnarfjodurarnarfjodur

    Which Zinoviev is this mr. A?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @svart

    You just do not feel irony here :-) In fact it is absolute democracy, as if you make any voting, or survey it'll show that absolute majority always agree on one approach or one way :-) In fact, most modern western democracies are not very far from this definition.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Which Zinoviev is this mr. A?

    Aleksandr Zinovyev

  • driftwooddriftwood

    So Russia is now a Western democracy?

  • stoneystoney

    I think what he meant is the ultimate form of democracy is Russia which I disagree.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    So Russia is now a Western democracy?
    I think what he meant is the ultimate form of democracy is Russia which I disagree.

    Guys, first, discussing Russia here is prohibited.

    Second, nope, he talked about highest form of western democracy :-)

  • svartsvart

    But what if the majority of forum members want to talk about Russia? :)

  • stoneystoney

    Everything is Animal Farm in one way or another.

  • driftwooddriftwood

    I like this: “We need a dream, a hope, a utopia. Utopia is a great revelation. If people do not succeed in inventing a new, at first sight maybe even useless utopia, they won’t survive as human beings. We need a fairytale, for it is of great importance for people, which chimera to believe in and which fairytale to trust”.

    The ideology of the future is neither capitalism nor communism nor a deceitful liberalism — it is a new ideology of human coexistence, based on communal understanding and protection of such basic and principle terms like Human, Life, Love, Joy, Freedom, Truth, Equality, Justice, Pride, Morality, Labor, Creativity, Nature, Water, Air, Earth.

    The ethical maxim of the future world is the protection of the planet Earth. All citizens of the future world are members of the Union of the Earth!

    Long live the new Renaissance!

    Long live the new pilgrims of the XXI century!

    I greet you, even if you are yet to be born!

    http://zinoviev.info/wps/archives/423 and more interesting words of a widow.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @svart

    Internet is large thing :-)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @stonebat

    Yet it is not smart to always cite only one quite bad analogy :-)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @driftwood

    Though from first post is from The Global Humant Hill, very fun thing. I am not sure that english version of it ever existed.

  • stoneystoney

    Political ideologies... who cares. Let science rule the world. Let's witness the next evolution (I don't believe in revolution) going forward which doesn't necessarily mean more happiness.

  • stoneystoney

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev Sure the devil is in the details :) Just tiresome to think and talk about such stuff. Nobody knows what's going to happen. Just wait and watch... what else to do?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Political ideologies... who cares.

    Let science rule the world.

    Science can't rule the world if things are going normally. And if they somehow will manage it, it'll be shortest and last period in human history. As letting scientist run even small country is same as asking to place author of sea novels to guide ship amongs reefs - deadly decision.

  • LPowellLPowell

    Democracy ≠ Majority Rule

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Just wait and watch... what else to do?

    Seems very similar to life ideology of swamp toad.

  • stoneystoney

    Sure Mr.Meerkat

  • hankhank

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev so true. keeping everbody quiet with wellfare and cheap alcohol has proven good concept in Germany at least.but all that will come apart someday too.

  • mintcheeriosmintcheerios

    Democracy works best if the population is educated, but it is difficult to educate a dumb population without a form of authoritarian control (whether it's governmental or cultural), especially when resources are limited. Authoritarianism can speed things up (given it's being aimed in the right direction), but it also comes at a price of course.

    I think Zinoviev is right, but we should recognize that not all dissent is created equal. For example, a scientist challenging a preconceived notion (like the sun revolves around the earth) is not the same as a creationist claiming the world is 6,000 years old. Should we make it illegal to be an idiot? Sometimes I think we should, but then who will decide who is an idiot?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Democracy works best if the population is educated

    Can you explain that you mean under "educated"? For example, who best can vote for different agro policies - highly "educated" white collar spending whole his life in cubicle doing pointless reports or highly uneducated farmer who whole his life lived at his farm?

  • mintcheeriosmintcheerios

    For example, literacy. A farmer who is able to read will be much better informed than an illiterate farmer and is more likely to influence others (including the white collar guy who lives in a cubicle).

  • jleojleo

    Hierarchists want a world without democracy, and Democratists want a world without hierarchy. Wall St. vs Occupy. Order vs Chaos. Like yin and yang, they're an inseparable dynamic. But... Hierarchists often masquerade as Democratists. So...as Abraham Lincoln probably didn't say " You can fool all the people all the time if you provide cheap hot dogs, cheap entertainment and cheap alcohol!" ...and vetted candidates for public office across the political spectrum, of course.

  • disordinarydisordinary

    Also informed - so a free press is very important - however this is something which western democracy's are losing.

    The internet is now the biggest tool in democracy.

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