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2K BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera, active m43, $995
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  • itimjimitimjim

    @luxis Banding? Are you talking FPN or posterisation? The GH2 image is awesome, but limited. The BM Pocket Cinema Cam looks fantastic, but it's also limited. Just depends on your needs....but nobody is gonna smackdown my GH2 in public :-)

  • choplairchoplair

    Found interesting pages about the Super-16 frame and compatible lens : http://eclair16.com/lenses/super-16-compatible-lenses/ http://cinematechnic.com/resources/optics_for_super-16.html

    By the way, as native MFT mount what do you think of Samyang 7.5mm f3.5 lens ? It's arround 300$. Focal lenght should be equivalent to ~22mm with a 3x crop factor. Not fast but quite wide to use with the BM Pocket Cinema Camera.

  • stoneystoney

    There's a thing about adapting lenses. The wider a lens is, the quicker a focus ring reaches infinity focus. Most dslr lenses have short throw. Using FF dslr 17mm lens on 3x crop body gives 51mm FOV. At 3 meters away, it's prolly close to infinity focus. i.e. short throw becomes shorter. It's so much easier to use native lenses. e.g. native m43 Nokton or SLRMagic lenses are so much easier to do MF on m43 system. Just my 2 cents.

  • SangyeSangye

    @kurth Those Kowa lenses are designed to cover a 1" sensor, which measures 13.2mm x 8.8mm. The BM Pocket CC has a sensor that measures 12.48mm x 7.02mm. Any lens that covers a 1" sensor will cover this camera's S-16 sensor.

    @choplair The Samyang 7.5mm is a fisheye... If that's what you want, great, but it's no substitute for a rectilinear wide-angle.

    edit - right now, those 6mm f1.8 and 8mm f1.4 Kowa lenses are looking like the best option for wide-angle on this camera. More are listed at http://www.rmassa.com/manu/kowa.htm

  • stoneystoney

    @choplair Samyang 7.5mm is fisheye...

  • stoneystoney

    @Sangye Rectilinear will require in-body software correction even if native m43 wide angle lens like Olympus 12mm or Panasonic 7-14mm is used.

  • last_SHIFTlast_SHIFT

    @itimjim

    ' I'm a film maker, a relatively bad one, an amateur and hobbyist and I want to grade. I don't need low light, I'm not even 'that' fussed about rolling shutter, I've got lights, use natural and I'm stabilised.'

    This is the best post I've seen all year - and can summarize about 95% of everyone :-)

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    right now, those 6mm f1.8 and 8mm f1.4 Kowa lenses are looking like the best option for wide-angle on this camera.

    Yea, they look allot what Red had planned for the 2/3" Scarlet mini-primes line. Wouldn't doubt if they were just going to be re-branded Kowa's...

    Really would like the 8mm and 16mm Kowa's... but that's 3k right there. So for that price there, I could just get the 4k BMC and use the Canon glass I have now... hmmm... some decisions need to be made soon.

    *Never mind, they have 2megapixel 1" lenses for under $500 each... Score!

  • stoneystoney

    This 16mm realm sounds like a whole different ball game. Anyone thinking like getting this little compact body and plugging c-mount lens like eating a piece of cake... oh well good luck. Those who used c-mount lens on m43 body would know... thickness & quality of different c-mount adapters... infinity focus blah blah. It's just another rabbit hole. I'm not saying this new gadget is evil though. Just not my kind of run-n-gun style cuz it wouldn't be easy. Neverthless I tip my hat to those who would make great content from it.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @last_SHIFT That's soo true 95% of all shooters are hobbyist...

  • luxisluxis

    @itimjim :) Well, just point the gh2 at the blue skies or similar, or have a white(or any other monochromatic and uniform surface in you picture, especially an underexposed one ( i know , i know i am not exposing properly for a wall without a particular meaning in the background of a subject, my bet;) c'mon man, i am sure you've seen it once or twice;) Creeping on the otherwise beautiful gh2 picture...I am not talking crap about the gh2, its just a reality check , that I had in the very beginning when i picked it up. And two years later things are still the same due to the hardware limits it has. So alternatives and solutions to this, (for me) problem are most welcome. Of course all things have their limits it's just about being aware and choosing the right tools for the right job.

  • Raysito22Raysito22

    @stonebat Good point. For example, the Oly 12mm has some nasty barrel distortion, 5.4% said photozine.de if it weren't for the software correction. Thing is...will the BM Pocket have in-body software correction? Otherwise, lots of people will get to see some nasty unexpected things from their prime lenses.

    Lets hope so. They'd be missing a lot if this little thing isn't compatible with OIS and doesn't have in-body software correction. The 12-35 could be a dream in this camera for scouting and doc with those features (light, little, with an edelkrone hand strap ergonomic too), but totally useless otherwise (nobody likes judder and distortion).

  • Ian_TIan_T

    A question for anyone listening (or reading)...this might have or have not been mentioned before, but when using a Metabones (like) adapter on a 16mm sized sensor...would it bring us back into the GH-X territory?

  • choplairchoplair

    @Sangye @stonebat I thought the larger crop factor would hide the edge of the image and so greatly reduce the fish-eye effect which is less visible in the center part of image, and that only minor geometry correction in post (since RAW is aimed at post production) could make it looks rectilinear. Not a perfect solutio, just an idea. But may be I'm wrong and it's gonna be too distorded...

    Another thought about lens (I know more since I have a lot of these) is the B4 mount lens with 2x extender. They are designed for 2/3" broadcast camera. B4 to MFT adapter starts at $100. When used with GH2 it vignettes in a way that the doubler or ETC mode is required, but even if it image covers the sensor, the edge are often too soft and show some color distortion.

    Now with the BM Pocket CineCamera which crops more, when enabling the 2x optical extender of B4 lens, relative focal lenght will be slightly increased compared to GH2, but image should be sharp even on edge.

    We're losing f-stop... but since those lens are quite fast, plus with the big zoom amplitude, servo control, etc. it should be a nice thing to experiment with the Pocket Cinema Camera !

  • SangyeSangye

    @Ian_T - Yes, with a metabones the total crop factor relative to FF will be 2.1x, compared to about 1.9x for the GH2. So yeah, roughly the same.

    @choplair - Yes, the most pronounced fisheye distortion would fall outside of the sensor, and if you're on sticks without straight lines in your composition it might be borderline useable, but anytime the camera is moving or pointed at straight lines, it'd be instantly recognizable as fisheye. And if you're willing to lose a little resolution and go through some extra processing in post production, sure you could correct it. I don't think that lens is worth the trouble, though.

    B4 lenses with a 2x extender would be an interesting option...

  • kurthkurth

    Sangye said

    Those Kowa lenses are designed to cover a 1" sensor, which measures 13.2mm x 8.8mm. The BM Pocket CC has a sensor that measures 12.48mm x 7.02mm. Any lens that covers a 1" sensor will cover this camera's S-16 sensor.

    It will not be about the image circle...it will be about the depth of the c-mount threads and whether they will interfere with the sensor .

  • jonbeeotchjonbeeotch

    To everyone getting excited about c-mount lenses... be careful! I still shoot and hand process B&W 16mm,for therapeutic reasons. been buying c-mount lenses for years (bought an angenieux 25 0.95 for $30 because "film was dead and MFT didn't exist yet", haha). Also came from the skateboarding world, so i was after wide lenses. Lots of the wider lenses, especially cheaper ones made for cctv cameras have weird back elements that protrude past the threads, rendering them useless (unless your after macro only) on some cameras depending on how the mount sits.

  • WilboWilbo

    I made a quick visual aid of the crop we can expect from the Gh2 to the BMPC in Photoshop (I think it's correct). Do you guys think the SLR Magic 11mm toy lens would be good economical lens for the BMPC??? It's about $170 on ebay.

    GH2_vs_BMPC.jpg
    1900 x 1050 - 66K
  • stoneystoney

    About the 13 stops DR, wouldn't it require external SSD recorder? You know the enormous cinema raw dng recording.

    The 10bit prores 422 in-camera recording... how many stops? 10? 11?

  • AriaAria

    @stonebat, they had a follow up interview with a BM rep and he said that they are using a Compressed RAW at about 1.5:1 Not a lot of Compression but he said you'd get about 30 minutes on a 128GB SanDisk SD. I believe he said he was using the fastest SanDisk they make. The ProRes to the same SD would get about 70-80 mins. That sounds good to me.

  • last_SHIFTlast_SHIFT

    NAB 2013: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera - Codecs Clarification

  • charlie_orozcocharlie_orozco

    Something I haven't read anyone talk about yet: because of the size of the sensor, wouldn't we be able to use EF-S lenses via Speed Booster? Unlike the case of Super35 sensors, where you need a full frame lens.

    I'm saying this because, say, the Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 is roughly a 50-150mm lens on the Pocket, but if you fit a Speed Booster in the middle then you get a 35-105mm f2, and that's with IS (if it's implemented through the electronic interface of the mount, I hope!)

    Oh, and let's not forget we'd be getting back the old and loved MFT depth of field!

  • kurthkurth

    ..except the metabones m4/3 to ef is on "indefinite delivery" status. and seems I remember reading that you could even use ef-s on m4/3 with the metabones as well, considering if it ever becomes a reality

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    Exact words from Grant Petty of Blackmagic "The images look virtually identical to our current camera!" Hint the BMCC v1. that's awesome cause I love the look of the BMCC

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    Now regarding the de-bayering of the Pocket Cinema's image... I am aware that a 1080p de-bayer is not technically information enough for a full 1080p 4:4:4 RGB sample, but we should still see the same 1080p-level detail correct? Or to put it another way, we won't be technically getting true 1080p RGB "color-resolution", but it should still resemble a 1080p image in "detail-resolution", right?

    I still love the idea of the Pocket Cinema Cam, but I'd rather just get a 2.5k BMCC if the detail level is going to end up close to 720p or lower...

    Again, I don't really care about "technical RGB resolution"... only that it's a true (or very close to) 1080p image as far as detail goes.

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