Driftwood ClusterX series 2:│moon│ЅріzZ│nebula│drewnet│Slipstream │Redshift

T1000

Moon Trial 5 is 1 GOP and DrewNet Trial 6 is 12/15 GOP. Whats the difference?

dado023

i am a layman, but 1GOP should be all intra frames(one frame=one image), and 12/15GOP PAL/NTSC has two intra frames per second, i guess, so 1GOP shuld result in better/precise manipulation when editing video

maxmizer

@rorykane that setup of lenses did you use?

thepalalias

@T1000 @dado023 Assuming that there is a limited bitrate available for lossy compression (which is what we're dealing with here) 1GOP settings will render detail more consistently from frame to frame while higher GOP settings allow for higher detail in situations where there isn't as much change in the frame from frame to frame.

However, in the case of ambiguous detail (like ISO or shadow noise) 1GOP settings will consistently render the subtle differences from frame to frame while higher GOP settings may sometimes update the noise/shadow less frequently.

I tend to favor 1GOP settings because I like the consistency between when I am shooting stationary shots and high motion shots. However, 1GOP settings are often a bit more difficult to get to span. Higher GOP settings are often easier to span and can offer greater detail in in low-motion (or no motion) scenes, with the possible exception of the noise rendering, etc.

Hope that helps.

dado023

regarding colors and editing, if i upconvert mts to 10bit 444, will that give me more maneuvering with gradation?

T1000

@thepalalias @dado023 Thanks for the info, I learn something new everyday! These hacks got me excited about film making again! I don't have to spend 3-5K anymore!

@dado023 As far as grading I came across this video by Shian Storm in another forum. Check it out:

Password is: 5DtoRGB

I'm sticking to what his tests show. He also has a website called Color Ghear: www.colorghear.com

T1000

@thepalalias Are higher GOPS more susceptible to camera freezing up in scenes with more motion?

thepalalias

@T1000 No. They are simply more prone to macro-blocking in a high motion scene, since they will often use up more of the bandwidth on the I-frame in the sequence and not have as much leftover for the frames in-between. A GOP1 setting performs much more evenly between high-motion and no-motion scenes.

rorykane

@maxmizer Primarily shot on 25mm Nokton. We also used 50mm Nikkor AF-D and 12mm Magic SLR

dado023

@T1000 y, in that video he says 444 is the best, but 422 is not that noticably different

nomad

It's a common misconception that long GOPs are less precise in editing. All modern NLEs will reconstruct exactly the frames needed at the editing point, there's no difference. It will put more processing load, though.

rheinpirat

that´s why I recommend transcoding into ProRes or Avid DNxHD. Although my editing machine can handle native files in Premiere, I prefer to transcode if I have to deal with a lot of footage. If you have hours and hours of footage, at some point native editing is getting slow. I only edit short stuff native.

T1000

Correct me if I'm wrong here but from what I'm gathering so far no hacked (or unhacked) camera (Panasonic or not) will actually use the full bitrate its designated correct? And it'll use only what it needs depending on the scene? Or is that only for certain hacks/cameras?

Thanks everyone for sharing the knowledge! Great forum!

Montwood41

I did a little test shooting with Drewnet yesterday. Footage looked really solid. I did try and do a neatvideo pass as well and was getting all sorts of weird artifacts. Does anyone know what the cause of this might be?

mee

This is just a test grading of a single shot chopped up sushi style. It is a prelude to a Sakura video I am still filming matched up to this music from my very Talented brother. Filmed using Moon and a Voightlander 17.5mm lens. I am really liking moon for grading.

emweb

Which moon ?

sakattaq76

Testing Slipstream #2 @720p, Trying two different soundtrack approaches, for different mood and atmosphere. Sorry for the first part, the lyrics are in Greek. Only the second part has been color graded. Enjoy . . .

jebsly

Filmed with Cluster X Drewnet Trial 8, 24H mode. Very happy with the results, and not one problem while using my 45mbps card like I had using one of the earlier trials. Brilliant work!

mastroiani

@jebsly nice work! Which lens did you use? Thanks

mastroiani

@mee hi mee, that's wonderful! How did you grade it? Thanks!

thepalalias

UPDATE: Major typo on the previous post. I had posted the bitrate for IV 1 as attributed to IV 2 and vice-versa. Fixed now.

@mee Nice. :)

@t1000 All of the hacked and unhacked settings vary their bitrate based on the content of the scene. Some vary much more than others. I have used several of the more aggressive intra settings in situations where the average bitrate for the clip was 147 mbps, but Moon 5 tended to have a lower bitrate.

Here is a comparison in Megabytes/second (not megabits/second) of the avg. bitrates for matched (moderate detail) shots in 4 different Intra settings.

Moon 5 9.8 MB/s

Sedna Q20A 15.7 MB/s

IntraVenus V2 Smooth Cinema 16 MB/s

IntraVenus V1 444 18.3 MB/s

This test shot was shot indoors via natural light, in the daytime using the minimum focusing distance on the Panasonic 20mm pancake lens. The aperture was set to f/2.8, ISO was 1600 and since I was shooting in VMM 300% mode, the shutter speed was 1/15. The subject was an eyeball and the shot slowly moved from "too close to focus" to "perfectly in focus".

When I shot the same subject in much lower light at night with artificial light, the bitrates scaled fairly similarly.

Here are the night time values (same test settings except f/1.7).

Moon 5 9.5 MB/s

Sedna Q20A 15.8 MB/s

IntraVenus V2 Smooth Cinema 15.3 MB/s

IntraVenus V1 444 18 MB/s

T1000

@thepalalias Your test is missing. Thanks for the info!

thepalalias

@T1000 Not missing. I didn't post the clips - I was just letting you know what the results of the tests were. Glad it was helpful. :)

mee

@mastroiani I graded it in Magix Pro X3 using the curves (wheels) for color and I did a slight raise of contrast and decrease in brightness. That's it.

darkman1983

I've tried the Moon Trail 5... No Special Grading was done, only applied some Mojo (I like that Mojo Plugin). Did you guys think it came out good? Had no time for Neat Video Noise Reduction, because they want me to upload fast :-) Don't worry about the audio, it was from Line and i had no time to do much to it... Maybe i should have used 30p instead of 24p! But now it's to late ;-)

Settings Smooth: all -2 EV: 2 1/3 ISO: 1600 Lens: LUMIX G 14 mm / F2.5 ASPH.

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