It's not politics, economics, or whatever. The influence has gone already too far. We've become a virus, soon to overcome its host. That's all we seem to be moving to. Change of minds? Oh fuck, whose gonna do that when we have public education controled by politicians controled by private corporations who also control private education. Egoism put appart.

It's a never-ending chain to not get out of the path, until its too late. Or until things get so fucked up, few survive and humanity becomes a whole other thing, who cares. What's sure is that our growth (already 7k million people around the globe, 10k million for 2050 expected, growth will continue until at least 2075 some experts say) will have to stop at some point. Then nature will probably put us to place. Or ourselves, by doing what we do best, but probably not doing anything better afterwards neither (if there is an afterwards, 'cause, who the fuck knows).

Love Carlin's quote and the vid. Specially love the last part of the quote, talking about family. That's all there is to be joyful, for sure.

US is not much better. I worked in San Francisco for a while, and the homelessness was just as bad as anything I've seen in Russia.

I don't know how the US can call itself a first world economy with the social failings that it has.

@svart I just shit my pants off with that. What a wide view, as if anyone could study, as if everybody had the same rights, way of thinking, personal life (mind is weak), moral, ethics, and so on. It's not a discussion on wether you can be rich or not, it is about wealth and money distribution, letting it be or not (and as if that was the biggest challenge of humanity, was my personal view), etc.

Holly molly man...and BTW anyone who doesn't have the money, is jelous about the one who does? Isn't getting money related to moral options too? For example, today you CAN'T be rich having production in your country, you must take production elsewhere, and have childrens make stuff for example. The reason is costs. Less costs make things cheaper, or price can be kept, any way, more profit. Apple via Foxconn for example.

Also an engineer can chose not to work for Apple for that shit. Some people do chose after a bit of thinking. So...his problem would be jelousy? Or human decadence? Or...whatever you might think of?

Should we not think about moral because others don't? Yeah that makes us weak - sure. Some people don't like where humans are headed...it's not jelousy, is it?

What a funny comment. For real, it was to me. But I guess that's pretty harming for human kind, and even more, alarming for society.

That's why Chomsky insists so much on education (against adoctrination), otherwise we keep our view so so limited...and that's where jelousy of the american dream harms a lot society. Either you have some kind of ethics and moral, or you're rich, both at the same time are pretty much impossible, nowadays more than ever due to agressive capitalism.

About George Carlin in relation to quotes in this thread - he sure made good use of groups and culture he belonged to, as evident from his professional success ;)

@svart, @bwhitz I assume you've never been really poor (e.g. subsistence farming out of necessity, forced into factory work for little compensation etc.) or in a situation where what you want in life cannot be bought or monetized, for one reason or another. You should look up stories about those people who are not as lucky as you, those who value different things in life, and if possible, take the chance to experience their side of the coin, preferably without whatever financial and psychological safety nets you have right now.

As far as zero-sum games go, there is finite amount of resources on this planet that humans can use efficiently enough to live off them. Economic systems are abstractions for managing those finite resources by humanly possible means (usually, at some stage, as money). Failures in economic systems prove those means are still far from perfect in practice, and pyramid scheme-like distribution of wealth suggests that those in control tend to look mostly after their own interests, despite having the means to enact major changes for greater benefit (including, in the long run, their own). Hundreds of millions of people suffer while some thousands command extraordinary economic power but do not help, at least as much as they could.

If you really think that "He who has the gold, makes the rules!" is a good system, well, better hope that the ones who rule over your life are benevolent.

I said what I said to get a rise out of certain folks and to prove a point. It's quite interesting to see that folks seriously get upset over what someone else thinks, even when those thoughts really don't have anything to do with their own lifestyle. You think you know best? Isn't that the same belief system which you rally against, someone telling you what to think or do when you don't agree? How incredibly hypocritical... I mean come on, you all rally against my point but then turn around and point out that the everyone has choices and can think independently.. Yet you aren't..

Rich or poor, it's not the wealth that really ends up hurting people in this world, it's those people who think they know better than others and seek to impose those thoughts on others. Money is just the tool they use to do it.

Some folks in this world just aren't happy unless they are complaining about something that they can't help. Why? Stress relief, I suppose.

And PS: I grew up poor, I know exactly how it feels to grow your own vegetables in the back yard because you can't afford to buy them. That's what made me choose to work harder and be wise with money, so that I don't have to worry when the economy goes to shit. I save my money, I invest wisely, and I have no debt at all. I also worked through school and now have a good job which I am good at and enjoy. I have drive. I don't care to be rich, but I do care that I don't have to worry about the next paycheck. That may not be how life should be to some, but that is how life IS. I got over it long ago, and now I do what I have to do to live how I want to live.

PPS: Those of you who claim the USA is a "democracy" are only showing your lack of knowledge. The USA is NOT and has never been a "democracy". It is a Constitutional Republic. A democracy is where every citizen's opinion is counted. A constitutional republic is where the citizens elect people to have opinion for them. You know, the first step to change, is actually understanding what you are trying to change...

@svart

I obviously got upset, yet life goes on. A LOT of people think what you said. Am I impressed? Nope. Been there, done that, then tried to educate myself and still try. Sure I'll look back in a few years and say "how stupid was I", and still, be fucking stupid. No problem!

We all try to impose our point of views, some points of view are less limited than others, take more things into account. It's not the same reading Noam Chomsky than a press columnist. Is Chomsky better or worse? I don't really care, I care for arguments that get as far possible as they can from the main matter, so as to get to the root of the problem. I still prefer reading some phylosphy over Chomsky who I prefer to press columnists, yet read all of them. Now, am I just trying to look smart? 'Cause I believe it's stupid to compare, yet it's good to acknowledge some things.

Meh...it's stupid. Thought we were here to share then we got to lying so fast...

And BTW being so eskeptic as to think none's got the reason, won't help us neither. Someone may have the truth of what's best for the human somewhere hidden in their mind. Yet, if they share it, they are imposing. So, you better not try to impose it, even though anybody thought that way before. It all gets so dark... look at propaganda or marketing. They impose and they work. The thing is, imposing can be done for good or bad. But there's no other fucking way to organize, some minds are weaker, some are smarter, some people are dumb. Cruel nature.

Anyway, the funniest thing is that the only one here I can see trying to instruct others, is you. Oh hipocrisy, how much I love you.

Bad thing, I didn't wanna have fun with this discussion, it's always the same thing once and again, I think we can get to a point (personally, not like "The Truth", just like sharing for good), then it all gets distorted. Reminds me Far Cry 3. A hell of a scene by the way.