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Sound editing and mixing with headphones (sound cards, amps etc.)
  • RikerRiker

    I'm not currently in position to sound proof my spare room so since I'm budget conscious I think getting a set of good headphones will do the trick for now.

    After quick googling, it seems that Sony MDR-7506 and Sennheiser HD 280 are the popular choices in the sub 100 price range. What I want to know is :

    Do I need a amp for any of those 2 headphones? I'm currently using built-in audio from my PC, and I would do an upgrade but I'm not sure if buying a Sound Blaster card will do anything for the levels of headphones?

    I did find Asus Xonar soundcards that have built-in headphone amplifiers, is anyone familiar with those?

  • 62 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    If you have any pro sound card it'll do.

    Otherwise - http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/3285/headphone-amplifiers-stationary/p1

    Headphones you mentioned is mostly used on location. I mean that they are popular in specific circles.

    If you ask me, Takstar Pro 80 must be better as closed universal headphones.

    And good open headphones are best.

  • spacewigspacewig

    Vitaliy is right, most modern sound cards are fine. What's important is to make sure that the noise floor is low enough that you don't confuse it with location sound audio.

    I always do dialogue editing with a pair of cans as it allows much better focus on sound details due to the proximity of the speakers to your ears. This is crucial when building your room tone and doing noise reduction/spectral editing. My advice would be to invest in a pair of reference earphones that you can trust and use for the next 20 years. I use a pair of AKG K702. They are reference (neutral) earphones with incredible detail; no frequency is hyped. I've seen them sell for as low as $250 new. If your budget is tight, buy them used. That's what I did.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I use a pair of AKG K702. They are reference (neutral) earphones with incredible detail; no frequency is hyped. I've seen them sell for as low as $250 new. If your budget is tight, buy them used. That's what I did.

    If you ask me K702 is far from very neutral, but good headphones. I have one. :-)

    I suggest Philips X1 from this price range - much better build quality and they have bass (that you need slightly reduce for real neutrality).

    Senns HD600 is another option, just much more fragile.

  • oscillianoscillian

    http://www.112db.com/redline/monitor/

    I use this plugin with a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50. Kinda does the trick!

  • RikerRiker

    At the moment I only have my onboard sound, I think it is some Realtek driver or whatever. So I don't think that would constitute as any grade of quality?

    By pro sound cards, do products like this apply? - http://www.amazon.com/Focusrite-2i2-USB-Recording-Interface/dp/B005OZE9SA

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    By pro sound cards, do products like this apply

    Yep, Tascam also has many USB sound cards. Just check feedback always on each.

  • spacewigspacewig

    I'm going to assume that the OP is looking for earphones to work on post a production audio, not music mixing. Perhaps he/she can confirm. As for the K702 being "far from neutral" , really?

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    I had few audio interfaces, now I have what I consider the absolute best buy, and I love it and totally recommend it, T.C. Electronic desktop konnekt 6.

    I had some Technics headphones but I got used to them and could use them for some stages of work, but my kids broke them in 25 pieces. Now I'm waiting for Takstar Pro 80 to arrive.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    As for the K702 being "far from neutral", really?

    Really, as I said, I have them. They are good detailed, spacious headphones, but far from ideal or neutral.

  • inqb8trinqb8tr

    I forgot to add, you don't have to use preamp for headphones, integrated card has output that can drive them. But it is much more confortable to work with external interface, e. g. this konnekt 6 has level meters, and pot for HP, mono mix button. I have never performed any tests of sound quality, and don't even know how that is done, except that it really sound nicer to me. I have it hooked up on two Alesis M1Active 520, and it works amazing. So, when I mix audio, I use HP + Monitors, and as funny as it might sound, my car to test levels. Don't know why.

    Also with external card there are no more cracks, clicks, buzzing etc from internal card picking up everything inside the chasis.

  • RikerRiker

    @spacewig yes yes, I would need these for production audio.

    If I get one of these USB interfaces, will I need headphone amp? Do any of these USB interfaces have them, I'm looking at their specs but can't find it listed...

    Digidesign Mbox 2, M-Audio M-Track or Fast Track...I'm looking at the entry level as you may see :)

    PS Alesis iO2 Express seems the cheapest...and I like the Alesis as a brand, I had their SR-16 drum machine way back in the day and it was an awesome made indestructible piece of equipment.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    If I get one of these USB interfaces, will I need headphone amp? Do any of these USB interfaces have them, I'm looking at their specs but can't find it listed...

    Many have headphone amps, some good, some not so. Get interface with separate power (not from USB).

    Alesis is just virtual brand - http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/1688/branding

    Some Tascam offerings

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I would get a Chinese design USB interface in the 50-100 dollar range that does ASIO instead of a soundcard. I use Weiliang design, but there are several that are good. Look over the link that Vitaliy posted. You can move it freely between computers and there are many that sound nearly as good as my high end ones. They sound as good or better than "brand name" midrange junk gear.

    For headphones the ATH-M50 is OK for closed design, and the Sennheisers are good for open design. Cans are personal, so try some out and find something you can work with that is comfortable. The Sennheiser 280 is not bad, but not as good as the ATH-M50. Closed designs are best for noisy environment, obviously, best to have an open pair and a closed pair.

    If you want mixing and measuring suite, just get an RME box. You get Totalmix and all the cool measuring tools.

    Cans are not linear, and for a number of reasons which have been detailed at great length elsewhere, cans are useless for mixing. The best you can do is to create a mix that sounds good on your cans, and someone else's cans, but sounds horrible on a lot of other systems. You have to have a pair of speakers to do a mixdown, there is no way around it.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Cans are not linear, and for a number of reasons which have been detailed at great length elsewhere, cans are useless for mixing. The best you can do is to create a mix that sounds good on your cans, and someone else's cans, but sounds horrible on a lot of other systems. You have to have a pair of speakers to do a mixdown, there is no way around it.

    I do not agree here fully. You can mix in cans, if they are equalized or you know their character. Imaging is different, but it is not huge problem in most cases.

    Near field monitors at reasonable price always will be less detailed, will have inferior bass and lots of reflections (even for near field, as I said).

    Good to understand that most sound engineers I met are either headphone addicts (most work on headphones with check on monitors), or in reverse.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Top interfaces are from MOTU, Focusrite and Roland.

    I like http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Roland-UA1010-Octa-Capture-10X10-USB-Audio-Interface-/291050285013?pt=US_Computer_Recording_Interfaces&hash=item43c3f2e7d5

    It is sold as "used" (prevention of manufacturer measures), and with good discount (but not cheap and can be of no use if you just need to monitor and record from one mike).

  • RikerRiker

    @DrDave are low price products like this worthy of buying simply because of their brand - this Roland Duo-Capture mk2 goes for $80, haven't seen anything cheaper than this really http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UA11MK2/

  • RikerRiker

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev looks "pro" :) but unfortunately at the moment I haven't got the slightest clue what would any of those jacks and inputs do for me.

    Are there any examples where would I need 4x XLR on my video editing rig? I can't think of a situation...

  • DrDaveDrDave

    @Riker The Chinese designs are cutting edge. I don't see anything out there better for under a grand. For home use, you only need 4 XLR if you are recording in a home studio. It's a good idea to have voice over capability for quick and dirty punch ins but for that stereo is plenty. Many of these min dacs have an analog input you can just plug a preamp into. I only use my computer for editing, so I just need a good monitor, but everyone has a different setup. I have definitely heard some interfaces other than RME than sound decent, and there isn't nearly as much difference between brands as there used to be. But within brands there is a quite a bit of variety. I have tried some Focusrite stuff that was pretty darn good, and some that wasn't as good. Depends on what you want it for.

    That Octacapture that Vitaliy linked to looks interesting. You can get a Mackie 8 channel with dual HP monitors for about $300 with Onyx pres as well. If you get something like that, make sure it works as "stand alone", so you can use it on location with no computer attached. The RMEs are slightly better but there is huge competition in the midrange.

    Mostly these days I just record to my DR 680 and take the card out and load it on the computer, and that is that. All the really expensive stuff just sits on the shelf.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    If you get something like that, make sure it works as "stand alone", so you can use it on location with no computer attached. The RMEs are slightly better but there is huge competition in the midrange.

    Octa-capture can be used standalone. Tascam US-800 also can be as I remember (never used one as such, but I have it). US-800 is good interface and can be found very cheap, just drivers are horrible (and company do not care to fix them, their simpler US models have better drivers).

    In practice you need something simple usually if all you do is recording your voice, even simple USB MicPre can do. Plus headphone amp.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    Exactly. If you need to you can use something simple for a quick voice-over.

  • vic20vic20

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev "Good to understand that most sound engineers I met are either headphone addicts (most work on headphones with check on monitors), or in reverse."

    sorry but I don't know of any good engineer that would mix on headphones, the right way to do it is on monitors, and check the mix on headphones, but not the reverse.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    sorry but I don't know of any good engineer that would mix on headphones, the right way to do it is on monitors, and check the mix on headphones, but not the reverse.

    Ones I talked can be not so pro and not so rich, you know :-) I agree that it is very common opinion to work only /mostly with monitors.

    Problem is that such opinion has very little logic. I even heard it from the guy using just horrible unequalized Yamaha monitors.

    Only fully logical explanation (aside from imaging) is that it requires skill to keep headphones at reasonable level (due to psychoacoustics you need more Db for same perceived loudness and it can be not good for ears).

  • spacewigspacewig

    He's not looking for earphones to mix music but for audio post-production as it relates to video. So discussions about mixing in earphones is pointless.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    He's not looking for earphones to mix music but for audio post-production as it relates to video.

    Were you found it in first post? He asked about sound card and headphones suitable for task.

  • RikerRiker

    @DrDave I', sure that Octacapture is top notch device in its class but the pricetag of $500 is a no no for me at the moment :)

    As you've said, it would be smart to get something I could use for quick voiceover work, but that's about it at this point where I'm at. As I've said, I need this mainly to have a decent sound "card" for video post production, one XLR input is fine but any additional features seem unnecessary to me now.

    So those under $150 devices are absolutely everything I'm looking at.

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