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Black Magic: Official $1,995 raw cinema camera topic, series 2
  • 1111 Replies sorted by
  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @johnbrawley what are a few things we can expect, or hopefully expect in future FW updates, since we have your presence at the moment ; )

    also, being able to record in the "touch to zoom" in RAW would be nice as well, kind of like the gh2 ExTel function, but doing this with 2.5K wouldn't show too much quality loss. I know, I'm being greedy, I'm very happy with what it is for it's cost. I guess in this day and age people are so used to having bells & whistles we've forgot to just set back and be glad we have what we have. iMagine an iPhone iN the 60's lol

  • johnbrawleyjohnbrawley

    @GravitateMediaGroup I'm not able to say.

    But look at what BMD have been doing in capture cards for the last 10 years. Constantly astonishing the market with higher and higher specs whilst simultaneously doing it for unheard of prices that seem to lower with each new model.

    And they do it quickly.

    So whilst they will keep improving the FW, they also tend to make the bigger feature set changes with new or different models. Rather than the RED model of "obsolescence being obsolete" They make upgrades so cheap that you can't argue.

    So don't buy this camera if you're expecting years of firmware iterations like RED. They tend to just improve the hardware instead.

    jb

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @johnbrawley I'm completely fine with that, it's already better than I expected honestly. Sure it has a few VERY minor issues, but if it was 100% perfect the first time, they wouldn't have much room to improve.

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    yes, I know blackmagic is 1 word, brain fart. lol I also tested on a glidecam in the first few shots.

  • nomadnomad

    We tested the BMCC for RS in the same way we test all cameras: by shooting a fan with electronically stabilized speed.

    It is in the same league as 5D or GH2, nothing worse or better. The Sony FS-100 is a bit better, the Scarlet is considerably better, about half as much, and the Epic has about one third only.

  • pinger007pinger007

    @GravitateMediaGroup

    What glidecam model did you use?

    thanks

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @pinger007 HD2000, I also have the vest but didn't use it on these clips. One thing about it, there is nothing light about gliding the BMCC, and I didn't even dare try it with the switronix battery added. lol

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @nomad what do you mean electronically stabilized speed? a fan the swivels?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Via: http://www.ryanewalters.com/Blog/blog.php?id=8867038547732459854

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    ...getting better NDs makes a difference.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @BurnetRhoades

    We had this video already referenced here and in other topics.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev I'm sure, it just gets to the meat of the issue a lot faster than the "family crest" version.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @BurnetRhoades

    Yep, but it is always required to add all test details before this video, as this guys used very strong ND filters to specially show big color shift.

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    I know that in a lot of situations, this can be important. But I had to laugh every time he said "but it can be brought back" hence, the purpose of raw to begin with. I have noticed that with raw or not, if you push the bmcc too far it's noise city.

  • GMCGMC

    I have a very basic question: the BMCC claims 13 stops of dynamic range in a 12bit DNG file (raw). How can a 12bit raw file exhibit 13 stops of dynamic range? 12bits mean 2^12 values for the luma information, hence also 12 stops (luma doubles with every stop).

    Or is there some confusion regarding the term raw? Raw means for me no processing, just a huge junk of data from the sensor. In this case raw seems to be more, namely 13 stops mapped onto a 12bit "raw" file via some sort of curve.

    I understand the mapping of lets say 11 stops of DR mapped via log (or something else) on an 8bit codec. But RAW?

    What am I missing?

  • eatstoomuchjameatstoomuchjam

    RAW absolutely does not mean "no processing." Every RAW format has a bit depth limitation - most higher end still cameras are 14-bit. Some lower-end cameras are still 12-bit. Beyond that, 12-bit RAW does equal 13 stops of dynamic range, as long as you remember that 0 is also a valid value. That would make all possible powers of 2 that could be stored in that space equal to this range: 0 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    After spending 10 weeks helping to color-grade the film [Oh Brother Where Art Thou?], Deakins said he was impressed with the new technology’s potential, but remarked in the October 2000 issue of American Cinematographer that “the process is not a quick fix for bad lighting or poor photography.” (This quote can stay in the present tense, of course, because it will be relevant in perpetuity.)

    He was using DataCine scans from Super-35mm. Totally, @eatstoomuchjam , all RAW requires processing. Unprocessed RAW looks like crap no matter the camera. Some of the cutting edge HDR displays may be able to one day show a RAW image in near totality but they're still going to be applying a LUT of some kind.

  • nomadnomad

    @GravitateMediaGroup

    The speed of the fan is controlled electronically, so it's reproducible. We don't let it swivel. You can see the squeezing and stretching of the blades very well at short exposure times.

    @ all others: You can squeeze more stops than 8 into 8 bit, if you like. Many cameras are squeezing 9.5 stops into 8 bit. These things are not directly related, even if both are "binary", like doubling with every step. But the bit depth will just decide how finely differentiated your values will be. 13 stops put into 12 bits have 4096 discrete values you can use for your corrections, giving you a lot of leeway before you get into banding. If you squeeze that much latitude into 8 bits it will fall apart quickly.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    The cameras are all shimmed and calibrated to 44mm as per the reported focal flange depth of EF mount. I use the term "reported" as Canon does not publish the specifications officially so the exact expected tolerances are not known.

    When I tried the same collimated lens on some 5Ds, 7Ds and even a C300, the witness marks fall short of the expected distance which indicates to me that there's some fair amount of tolerances built into the Canon cameras to cater for still lenses where the tolerances are not as critical as cine lenses.

    To address this, we need to put in the same allowances. We have tested this with some of the cameras from customers reporting this and it works.

    If you think you're encountering this issue, please contact your local Blackmagic Design support office and we'll sort you out.

    The camera will have to be sent back to be recalibrated

    To be short - somehow BM though that they do not need to allow tolerance for ideal lens to shoot past infinity. They also did not make measurements of actual flange distance of enough samples of Canon cameras before issue became known.

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    If you think you're encountering this issue, please contact your local Blackmagic Design support office and we'll sort you out. The camera will have to be sent back to be recalibrated.

    yeah............I don't see this happening. Send it back to the blackmagic monster and it will be 5 years before you get it back. lol j/k

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    Shipped my bmcc back today to be recalibrated, they say its up to a ten day turnaround. I guess ive already waited this long.....

  • cls105cls105

    @robmneilson where did you send back? Australia?

  • GravitateMediaGroupGravitateMediaGroup

    @robmneilson

    i'm glad one brave soul is attempting this. let me know if they are true to their word about a quick turnaround. I've heard a lot of nightmares people have had with sending equipment back to larger manufactures (panasonic, canon), so I'm curious to see how BM does.

  • johnbrawleyjohnbrawley

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    or...

    They wanted cinema lenses that have a hard infinity stop and accurate witness markings for focus pulling to be accurate and found that many EF mount lenses aren't that accurate.

    So they are now deliberately shortening the mount to allow for this inaccuracy with the downside being that cinema lenses with hard stops at infinity and witness marks will not be as accurate.

    jb

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    They wanted cinema lenses that have a hard infinity stop and accurate witness markings for focus pulling to be accurate and found that many EF mount lenses aren't that accurate.

    Most of their buyers do not have even single cinema lens (I do not count for such Samyangs with gears).

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