BlackMagic: Official $2,995 raw cinema camera topic

DrDave

I'm not complaining about the sensor being smaller, I'm saying, in response to a comment that camera manufacturers would be worried, that the big Cam companies have "overhead" to work in, just based on the laws of physics. They don't have to jump through hoops to reinvent the flange distances or try to squeeze more out of small sensor. All they need to do to compete is to enable 2K or RAW, which should be a straightforward task with a larger sensor, in addition to the obvious LL benefits. And if you were offered a 2K cam that was smaller, lighter, focused fast and silent, had a huge selection of razor sharp lenses and looked amazing at high ISO, you would, I think hesitate before buying the Blackmagic breadbox. That's not to say I would not want one, the raw feature is great, I'm just saying they probably will have some competition. And suppose they did just tweak the DSP and output 2K, and it was sharper, would you still choose raw over sharpness? Some would, for sure. Some wouldn't.

kholi

@DrDave

Weellll... they'd have to also match the price per spec. So basically, KineRaw S35 price point.

That's still several thousand dollars more than the Magic Cam.

Maybe if it were 5,000 all in like Magic Cam, came with a mount and a power solution (Even if it were internal) then we're talking about something completely different.

Who knows, maybe in the future?

stoney

BMC sensor is 2.5x crop, but its pixel pitch is 6.5µm where 5D Mk III has 6.2µm. Sounds good to me.

johnbrawley

@stonebat Actually I believe 2.3X compared to 135 and 1.6X compared to S35.

jb

RRRR

@kholi the only complaint as far as Im concerned is the lens mount. Though there seem to be some confusion re: sensor sizes.

plasmasmp

I love a bunch of things about the camera. As far as look, nothing under an slog f3 or a red scarlet can compete. Ill disassemble the lens mount to see what can be done... prolly nothing outside an MC conversion but it will be fun to look. That and ill keep up the cineform fight until everyone uses it!

Faudel

@plasmamp nothing under an slog f3 or a red scarlet can compete, i will not be surprised if BMD announces the starting dev of a ~10.000$ S35 4K camera at photokina.They bought Cintel, it will place Resolve in a nice position in the digital intermediate process.I guess the "savoir faire" of Cintel in the "film to sensor" relation can bring a lot to BMD in building this S35 camera.

kholi

@plasmasmp -- Preach.

It may not be the lowlight king, all good. FS100 still keeps that.

But all around? Yeah, nothing beneath that range can hang. And even AT that range, I think the only other camera that would give me pause would be the C300. And that's a maybe.

I'm telling you, as soon as possible my camera is going under the knife dude. M4/3 nose on this sucker immediately.

danyyyel

@Faudel I think that BMD are very dependent on available sensor. They did not develop or manufacture the sensor. In this case, they did what many have been saying. That is that there was some off the self sensor and just add the necessary electronics to capture, store and preview that data. Some already have done that with a camera head and a pc like Ephel open source camera project. Because the technology was here.

Now a company with the hardware knowledge of BMD have realized it a much more sleek and well implemented solution. But for them to do an S35 camera they would have to get a sensor that is available and they have some strict features, one being DR. With all the marketing they have done on this camera. I don't see themself putting a 10 to even 12 stop DR camera.

Lastly, BMD are not saints, they are a commercial company. How would they manage if they just release another camera even before they deliver the first one!!!! The confusion, people cancelling there pre-order etc. What I think will happen, is if this camera sell well into the thousand to the tens of thousand, the sensor company will gladly develop an S35 version, but I think we will have to wait at least 1.5 years for NAB 2014 and it won't cost much more than this sensor size. Contrary to what people think, until about apsc size, in volume, apsc sensor cost less than $ 100, in the dslr volume world it is closer to $ 50.

danyyyel

@DrDave I have always being saying that the hardware was capable of it. Just look at what a $ 700 gh2 can do. It would be easy for those big companies to announce tomorrow a FS-100 mk 2 for example with 220 mbit 10 bit prores internal codec with a 13 stop DR log mode.They have everything, the hardware, sensor etc. But unfortunately they have been unwilling to do that.

Canon being the most extreme example. They accidentally became the hero of the low cost indie market and there response was to update there dslr line with the most lame way to encourage everyone to a 8 bit camera for insane sum. With an fs-100 mk2 spec for $ 3500 camera that I spec above. Sony would have to scrap everyting until about F65. Or reduce by about 1/3 to 1/2 every large sensor camera in there line up. I don't think any of these cameras will be happy or concern about that.

What is good is that if the BMC is a resounding success we won't have to be kept in the stone age of tech for long. Those big companys will have to be competitive. Because BMD is avery aggressive company. If likely this camera is a resounding success, I can see an S35 version coming at Nab 2014/2015 and for not much more than this model.

apefos

the manufacturers are giving us the features like a dropper! for three reasons: to make us buy another camera at every small improvement, to sell better feature cameras for higher prices, to have time to improve their technology. BMC will not change this a lot because the sensor is small, if BMD release a new BMC with m43 or s35 size sensor so the hard competition will begin and we will have better cameras for lower prices.

Brian202020

@apefos

I don't think having a slightly bigger m43 sensor would bring any more competition than the BMCC already has. M43 mount: yes definitely, but not a m43 sensor size change.