Hi All!

I just saw @davidhjlindberg nicely shot shorty "The Final Dance". I downloaded the video and watched on my edit. It's also good example of strobing shots. I'm not sure what shutter speeds David used in this, and my opinion is that specially in war scenes strobing works great - aka style of "Saving Private Ryan".

Go and see and it

But as @rajamalik commented that there is no strobing effect in latest hacks and many of You are saying that there is no eye-bothering strobing effects in material - and - testers don't see any problem how hacked GH2 captures this "cinematic motion": You must be right after all. Probably I should just forget it and shoot. = )

So this is my last try. =D @bwhitz @Roberto @mo7ies @LPowell @driftwood I did a test shootings with sedna A, crossfire variation 1 and Lpowell's latest Flow Motion v2.02. I did not have OIS on and I used Kit Lens 14-42 and Voigtländers NOKTON 40mm. I shot using same settings that I used shooting those flowers earlier on. And I see there is differences. LPowells hack seems to have more motion blur during handheld camera movement than others. After I exported 422(HQ) from NLE I conformed all three videos from 23.98fps to 25fps and compared again. LPowell's version passed without any strobing.

I like most SEDNA A in picture quality, but Flow Motion is better capturing motion. In a slower camera movements, sedna did not do almost any motion blur. When you make a zip-pan blur is there, but in a slower movements its notn

Possibly because it 'is' Intra. Flow motion and all longer GOP settings use P and B frames which maybe making the blend from frame to frame less obvious. Pure theory mind.

@Misterj Thanks for the props on Flow Motion v2. One of my goals was to see if I could improve frame-to-frame motion picture continuity by boosting B-frame image quality to match the quantization quality of the I-frames. In an FM2 1080p video, there are two B-frames between each pair of I-frames. The macroblocks in each B-frame are formed from reference blocks taken from both previous and following I-frames, averaged together. This inter-frame compression process is similar to techniques used to generate "tweened" frames between the key frames in animated videos.

In FM2, the theory is that high-quality B-frames can effectively form a bridge between consecutive I-frames, by blending object details from both I-frames together. (Of course, B-frames are not simply averaged pixels, the details in each frame are individually refined to closely approximate the details captured by the image sensor for that frame.) My hunch is that when viewing moving objects in a video, your eyes make every effort to integrate the consecutive frames into a continuous stream, and that random frame-to-frame discrepancies are perceived as undesirable distractions. Hence, the disturbing judder we see in some videos, that mysteriously vanishes when you step through the video frame-by-frame.

In an intra-frame motion picture, whether film or video, each frame is individually captured as a self-contained still image, with no inherent connectivity to any other frame. Frame-to-frame continuity is produced only by the coincidence of having captured consecutive frames at very short time intervals. At 24p, the frame rate interval is just barely short enough to maintain the illusion of continuity, and it can easily be dispelled by any perceived irregularity. I personally find the mismatch between the 60fps refresh rate of LCD monitors to clash noticeably with a 24p video cadence, whether interlaced or progressively displayed. And that's the main reason why in practice, I prefer 30p to 24p.

After reading all of this, even myself have recorded on 24p 1/50th shutter speed, the motion blur didnt look smooth as you would get with a perfect synced shutter speed with the recording framerate, and it does look abit unattractive.

You can it is most noticable at 29secs in this video:

Therefore, hasnt anyone found a way to at least implement a 1/48 Shutter Speed setting? like 1 step/level/click away from 1/50???

Wow...The thread came back to life....LOL!!

I am one of the ones that had complained earlier on this thread about excessive strobing (even using the latest hacks) I will be happy to post some of my earlier clips showing small sections of the original MTS files for anyone who says they have never seen this...or its totally normal, or curiously that no one ever posts any examples etc...

For me tho I have noticed it mainly panning the camera when there is higher contrast...black letters on a white or yellow background, trees against a blue sky...that kind of thing.

Anyway for me the Driftwood all Intra or Flowmotion 2 hacks produce such a beautiful image that I am very happy with, so I just use workarounds for 24P...(shoot on overcast days, dont pan fast....or not at all) keep human motion so its not too extreme) etc..

I really think if you plan to pan the camera a lot or are shooting sports its probably better to use 30P frame rate...as the problem is not really there, I have done countless tests on this BTW...at all relevant shutter speeds in 24P, and using several hacks as well. Also as LPowell pointed out 30P probably has a more fluid feeling on 60hz monitors, so its less troublesome overall and thats a fact.

Bad juddering with the camera in 24P almost looks like the object is jumping back and forth slightly as the camera pans past (even quite slowly), its easy to see and very easy in higher contrast footage.

But for me...I have more or less put it to rest, I know what the weaknesses are with 24P and I just work around them. I have never used a Red, but I have studied a lot of Blu Rays that were shot at 24P on the Red...and yes it is there too, but I would say its definitely less. As I mentioned earlier I saw it on Ghost Rider spirit of vengeance when the camera was panned over hi contrast rocks (similar to the GH2, but not quite as bad)....at 1hour 6mins....and other films too.

Personally tho...I have ended up using the all I frame hacks for 24P, mainly cause I love the detail and Flowmotion for more movement on 24P...and 30P for everything else. You just handle the camera very very carefully in 24P (use shoulder rig) and so on. Cheers

No one here seems to be thinking about GOP1 - shoot intraframe, it looks so so so much better for motion.

@driftwood Yep agreed...I like the feel of all Intra best for 24P, so thats mainly what I shoot with, I just pan and adjust the shutter accordingly. As I mentioned earlier ..if there is a lot of motion and movement and it looks too juddery on 24P, then 29.97 works for me, other than that I really love the image quality of 24P.

As far as 24P goes I shot some footage the other day for a music vid and it was hard to believe that type of quality can come from such a small and relatively cheap camera....just amazing and holds up very well in post.

A question (even tho I have done many tests) is there really much difference between the contained bitrate All Intra settings (such as Quantam 100) and the higher bitrate ones (such as Crossfire etc...)?

Plus strangely enough some of the longer GOP (cluster etc..) settings seem to produce a better image in HBR. (Although I have some more tests to do on that) Do you have any all Intra settings that you would recommend as being great in HBR as well?

@driftwood Yes, but what You think about Cluster 6 compared lets say Sedna AQ1 in 24H mode? I think that Cluster has les strobing effect and still, it does not have any of that bothering 'tweening' problem. I've been testing these two hacks side by side last two days and think that Cluster 6 has advantages in motion = bit faster pans and tilts before strobing is visually there.

Hi guys, I'm about to shoot with the GH2 using a jib. I'm planning to use Driftwood's Sedna AQ1 with Sandisk 64GB 95MB/s. I've read somewhere on these threads that shooting VMM 80% helps a lot with the judder issue when the camera pans. I'm trying to test this out but haven't noticed any improvements yet. I'm wondering if my post production workflow is wrong?

I'm transferring the MTS files onto my macbook pro HD and converting the files with 5DtoRGB batch. 5DtoRGB reads the VVM 80% files as being 23.976 so following on from LPowell's note that the files are actually recorded at 29.97 fps (and don't need to be sped up in an NLE) I'm telling 5DtoRGB to encode them at 29.97. Is this the right workflow?

Or should I import them into AE and interpret the frames as 29.97? If so, how do I export the MTS files from AE so that I can then transcode them with 5DtoRGB?

Well...what filter?

@Jim_Simon Thanks for replying. I'm glad somebody has noticed. This put a lid on the mystery.

(Quiet popping of champagne corks)

Hello, thank you everyone who has contributed to this topic. Could you please watch the example video:

test from INHUMAN on Vimeo.

(the password is personalview)

and say that it is the same thing. This stutter kills me! (look at around 7th second of the clip). I used Cinema mode, 24p, 1/50 second, everything -2, (noise reduction 0), smooth, Flow motion v 2.02 patch, the lens was Nokton 25mm, 0.95.

So what is the final conclusion on how to minimize this. Is it to set the shutter to 1/30 or to use HBR mode and 29fps.