Driftwood Quantum X Settings, Series 2: Sedna A, B, C

Athiril

@rsquires also check the bottom row of your HBR scene, the bottom row may be all messed up.

WhiteRabbit

@thepalalias, thank you again for more tests to observe. I can not access Vimeo for the original file as it is private? Observing the Vimeo player file means Vimeo recompression file? Based on what I can see from Vimeo player file, 4B appears less noisy, however, maybe this is more compression/marco blocking, thus smoothing out the noise? 4C, slight raise in the blacks, more crawling also? @thepalalias, please share your observation/interpretation. Thank you.

Athiril

Had a look at the settings, and immedietly went for the GOP related table, changing it to 1,0,0,1,1,0 seems to eliminate these "V-frames" (haven't tried on NTSC, but it should work for that too), and the bottom row of messed up blocks, otherwise outdoor performance is still the same huge QP range with high amount of skips.

@rsquires

There is inherent problems in trying to raise HBR up, this patch is limited by a smaller frame limit, it probably crashes if you raise it any higher.

thepalalias

@WhiteRabbit

Alright, changed it to password protected so that you can download it.

Password: driftwood

Mr_Moore

@thepalalias That’s a very good test. Thanks! Very similar to the test I did last night (although I wasn’t pushing ISO that high). I also tested the stock v1.1 firmware.

WhiteRabbit

@thepalalias, thank you. I will have a look later tonight, off to shoot something...

sohus

I don't see any real advantage in the new settings. I tested ISO 1600 and ISO 3200 in a very low light situation and you are hard pressed to find difference with Orion 4b. I haven't done daylight and ISO160 checks.

I am going to stay with 4b for a while, as the number of settings recently has been overwhelming and I don't want to be a test dummy. Time to start shooting real stuff again after all these death charts :)

rsquires

All this chopping and changing testing different flavours of Driftwoods amazing new settings has really highlighted for me the inherent loss in quality between HBR 25fps and Cinema 24 fps. It is a shame as I was hoping to use HBR 25 much more. I live in a PAL territory so it was vital that this got a fix in the last update. But the difference in quality is tangible. At the moment I have Rocket RC latest version as it squeezes a bit more from HBR, but Orion 4d with Dark Matter v3 is pretty superb in my opinion. Are we just too soon into HBR 25 fps territory to have really discovered what it can do or are we chasing something that will ultimately never be as good as Cinema. I say we, when of course I mean the tireless and brilliant work from Driftwood and Vitaly.

Athiril

Use a small DoF with something small in focus, like small flower closeups then compare to 24H, that should at least tell you if HBR/24p can capture the same detail level as 24H, etc.

The HyperDeck Shuttle is under $200, and version 2 is $370 something from B&H iirc...

ver 1 is uncompressed only.. ver 2 is uncompressed and DNxHD at 220mbps iirc, so ver 2 should be good even with the less expensive SSDs, such as a 128gb etc (do some googling etc).

I'll probably go down that route for good 25p.

towi

@rsquires

"inherent loss in quality between HBR 25fps and Cinema 24 fps. It is a shame as I was hoping to use HBR 25 much more"

for 25p try my 24p25p-NINE settings: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/45642#Comment_45642

cubrun

I tried new v4d Orion Dark Matter patch and my camera stopped recording after 10 min in 720p/50fps, also in HBR mode but after 7 min without any error massages. With v4b everything works perfectly. Interesting, I had the same problem earlier with Span-my-bitch-up. I used Sandisk Class 10, 30mb/sec.

rsquires

Here's some screen grabs of the difference between HBR 25p and 24p Cinema using the Quantum X Rocket hack. The interlace that HBR uses is obvious when you take a closer look at the image. It saddens me.

Images have written descriptions to identify each frame.

In motion the roof fizzes more in HBR than the Cinema which is rock solid.

mozes

@rsquires When i open hbr25p and cinema24h in seperate windows, and then switching fort and back between them, i think you have set the polariser different in the 24h shot? but i like both images

rsquires

@mozes Sun is slightly different in each shot as they were not taken concurrently and I might have knocked the fstop as well like a noob. But really the point is the compression artefacts in HBR are quite apparent when you take a look at the blue channel

rsquires

@towi What version of PTool is your 24p-25p Nine setting?

7pc

I'm sorry to start my existence here with a real noob question. First: @driftwood I hope, everything is fine with Your daughter!

My question: Having seen that 5D2RGB allows you to select a decoding matrix, I was wondering if there was a matrix that copes the best with Orion or DarkMatter. I was selecting BT.709 mostly. But still I am not sure if these things are in any way related. Again, sorry for noobing but i found this the best place to ask.

adventsam

@7pc I'd be interested in that too.

Stray

@7pc They're not related at all, stick to using 709 in 5D2RGB. In 5D2RGB its referring to how the file, mainly the colour information, is encoded (RGB 16-235). The matrix talked about in these setting files relates to the strategy the encoder uses to compress the image shot, its still stored as 709.

driftwood

Thanks guys for all the messages its not alarm calls but she's recovering well after a jaw break reset and some 3rd teeth extractions growing high up in gums, she's like a shark, really! Had to have it done or she would have had bad problems in later life. Thanks for your support all the same.

@7pc stray is correct in his answer. It is not related.

proaudio4

@thepalalias

Thanks for the test. From your tests it appears Orion V4c (all versions) render finer detail over V4b. When it switches from V4b to V4C V1, the image takes on an analog raster feel and the high frequency components (fine detail) come alive.

It does appear V2 and V3 have a bit less luminance over V1 (Did the lighting (or settings) change a bit?). V1 may be better IMO.

Also, a similar test (fixed lighting) with lower ISO maybe 800 with something with fine detail like hair may help us see the detail differences at the noise floor.

Frame

@driftwood: Good to hear that it was not alarm calls - best whishes for her recovery.

Did test Orion 4D with the GOP Related atjustment, Rocket v3 RC VBR and Flowmotion 1.11. for playback/editing on the Mac with Quicktime. Quad core I7, 2.2gHz

The GOP-related adjustment in Orion4d makes my files import correctly as 25FPS and play good in FCP-7 via log and transfer. Not a glitch in playback. Flowmotion plays and imports perfect, no hassle at all.

But variable bitrate in Rocket v3 makes Qicktime 10 and 7 freak out. Lower fields scattered all over the recordings. Footage misinterpreted as 50FPS. None of your proposed GOP-related changes helped in Rocketv3, but maybe there was a misunderstanding ´cause they were meant for CBR-hacks? A future Orion 4D with VBR for saving recording space would be a dream... Al the best, Frame

driftwood

Hi @Frame. Thanks for your support and tests. Excellent something is getting better then it seems - at least they import well now too.

But the mission for perfect HBR is not over. The test goes on. I am going to do a moderate bitrate Long GOP and GOP1 setting test to load up here later on and let people play with.

weeyam

That's insane, I've never heard of a third set of teeth growing. She must be some kind of hybrid human (shark X)

Best of luck

Frame

@driftwood: Orion4D v3 is excellent - also in motion rendition. Will do a three week documentary shoot in Japan this summer, most in Buddhist temples and many evening shots with a SLR Magic 0,95/50mm as main lens. Would be great to save recording space with VBR-version of Orion4D. I like double backups more than just one backup, what VBR could allow. Eager to test upcoming versions! All the best, Frame

badie

@weeyam some people had third set of teeth… like me ;-)

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