Personal View site logo
Make sure to join PV on Telegram or Facebook! Perfect to keep up with community on your smartphone.
Please, support PV!
It allows to keep PV going, with more focus towards AI, but keeping be one of the few truly independent places.
GH2 Cineform Question
  • 76 Replies sorted by
  • brianlucebrianluce

    @ Ian I'm also a TMPGenc user. Very good software. I get great results when I use it for making SD DVD's -- does a much better job than rendering out from the Vegas timeline. Affordable and Stable. +1.

    @Rambo Yeah, I'm a beneficiary of the freebie, must sting a bit for those who paid for it.

  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp

    I'm not sure what .avi codec I used but have just tried again with the free gopro cineform and will report back.

  • RamboRambo

    I also use TMPGenc V4.0, some great deinterlace choices in there and some very hand filters. Vegas won't encode cineform MOV files, but TMPGenc will do both Cineform avi and MOV. Yeah, not the first time a SW company stung me..haha.

  • dbpdbp

    I downloaded and tested it in Adobe Premiere. The highest bitrate it would create for 1080p was about 53mbps. Even with the highest HD or Film Scan options selected.

    Seems low for an intermediate codec. Definitely lower than the Neoscene cineform trial I've used.

  • MeierhansMeierhans

    I just checked, get rates between 65 and 85. I believe I did set it to Filmscan 1, rending into AVI container. Footage looks good anyhow.

  • Ian_TIan_T

    I get around 150 - 200 Mbps with Filmscan 2. This is a visually lossless wavelet codec so the data rate doesn't need to be super high.

    @Rambo - Yeah...I hear you. I was stunned to find out recently that it was offered for free. But the version you have still has the uncompressed option and I believe you get that cool color correcting tool with yours also (now THAT I wish I had).

  • RamboRambo

    On average the cineform codec should yield about 7x the bitrate of the original file, this is with formats it was designed for not mega hacked bitrate. So achieving 7x might be not possible with hacked footage. I'll do a test of neoscene and GoPro version on the same file and see what the difference is, I have one on a laptop and one on a PC.

  • Ian_TIan_T

    Oh...and I believe another "gotcha" is that it'a limited to 1080p.

    Back in November David Newman mentioned this on DVInfo:

    NeoScene is not completely replaced by GoPro CineForm Studio, but we are working in that direction.

    Use the free application to get the codec, as it include VfW support."

  • thepalaliasthepalalias

    @Ian_T Yeah, it is designed to replace NeoScene, not Neo so the resolution limit it still there.

  • MrEddMrEdd

    @Macalincag Finally found the Cineform codec in AME. Does anyone know witch has better quality, Cineform mov (less options) or Cineform avi (more options)?

  • otterotter

    @MrEdd Can you share how you found the CineForm codec in AME? It does not show up for me after installing GoPro/CineForm even after a reboot. Never mind, I found it.

  • MacalincagMacalincag

    @MrEdd

    I don't see why you wouldn't want to use the container that has more options. The only difference is the container.

  • MeierhansMeierhans

    @Ian_T AVI container set to filmscan 2 gives you 150-200 Mbps? Wow! Gotta check out. This would really be the weapon of choice and outrule old lazy ProresHQ422.

  • dbpdbp

    @Ian_T What are you using to transcode to the cineform AVI? I'm only getting 50-60mbps even w/ filmscan.

  • Ian_TIan_T

    @dbp I'm using TMPGenc and selecting Filmscan 2

    @Meierhans the data rate can vary. For example I have one clip's duration @ 1:42 sec and it comes up in Quicktime Player @ 127.14 mbps and another's duration is @ 37 sec and @ 156 mbps while another is @ 23 sec and @ 215 mbps. The latter has more details in the shot than the others. I have them all wrapped in .AVI and they can open up in Quicktime with no problems. For some reason when I save them as a .MOV file they come out upside down so I just keep them .AVI instead.

    Oh...I'm on a PC by the way.

  • Ian_TIan_T

    Also there's one caveat. Although there is no reason at this point for us to use the software interface that comes with the codec (since it can't read the GH2's AVCHD anyways) be careful not to change any of its default settings. I found out the hard way that depending on what was chosen in its "view" mode on the "Step 2 Edit" page it can affect how your NLEs views the footage. I was playing around in it and accidentaly hit "side-by-side" and couldn't figure out (for at least an hour) why Vegas kept showing me the same view...side by side. I had to backtrack and figured it out. Bottom line is to just leave the "view" at the default "LEFT EYE" or don't use it at all. FYI

  • RamboRambo

    Ian, I get the same upside down video exporting mov as you do.

    Hey that is weird that GoPro studio can affect the cineform codec in Vegas, not experienced that.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    Make sure in Cineform you are using a version (if there is one) that does not resample your video to16-235 unless you want that. In Premiere, you can set your workflow to only use effects that do not rerender the video. I used Cineform for years and was happy with the results. With earlier versions of CS3, the codec would just fly. At that time, there was no i7/cuda combo, and realtime playback was a serious issue: basically, you had to render out chunks in samples just to see what the effects were. I would say, if you are still using CS3, it works great. In CS5 and up, the cuda acceleration, available with literally a $35 dollar card, is just amazing. Why resample? Plus you get the speedy superscaling on pans and zooms, resizing, and the full dynamic range. Another area where Cineform shines is pulldown. It usually does a great job if you need that. OTOH, I have had great results with TMPGenc. But Cineform is great for no hassle pulldown.

  • MeierhansMeierhans

    Cineform has build in some quite powerful extension around decoding into their codec, these act on system wide base. On larger versions you can apply a LUT and write it nondestructivly into metadata inside the clip. This primary CC will be carried to any application you use. Powerful and dangerous at the same time.

  • RamboRambo

    Yes I know about the metadata, but surprising the split screen also carries, must be a bug as firstlight is not implemented in the free GoPro studio.

  • jameshow73jameshow73

    I think Cineform Neoscene adjusts its data rate according to the source video. I had low data rate videos from HDV and AVCHD and it encoded it to 50-60 mbps on Neoscene High setting.

    I did a test converting a Matrox 240 mbps video (was created as a Matrox codec 300 mbps setting 10 bit) to Neoscene Version 5.6.2 through Adobe Media Encoder.

    Results:

    Neoscene Settings (leaving everything else as default) High = 99 mbps filmscan1 = 123 mbps filmscan2 = 210 mbps

    I tested the data rate using GSpot v2.70a software (freeware)

  • crunchycrunchy

    @jameshow73 have you test it on the same source video? E.g. Having original MTS video which is additionally recoded into Matrox video. Then encode both (the original video and Matrox version) with Cineform.

    Keep in mind that Cineform, like Morgan M-JPEG 2000 codec are using wavelets for encoding video. If the scene is not complex, it does not need high bitrates to achieve practically loseless encoding. When I used Morgan Codec, the output file sizes, when using the same quality presets, were VERY different (in Mbps). Complex scenes with trees and bushes produced very large files.

    I suppose that Cineform is not "adjusted" to source data rate but to complexity of the source frames.

    Why do you need TMPGenc? It is possible to make it with AviSynth script:

    DirectShowSource("yourvideo.mts")

    which is imported into VirtualDub by selecting Cineform output codec. At least it's my (free) workflow with Cineform (is TMPGenc free?). However, since I am mostly dealing with 3D full side-by-side footage (3840x1080), I am using Morgan codec (it's unlimited size).

    @Ian_T Interesting that Cineform can show side-by-side. I am wondering if it can be used for storing 3D footage (and thus increasing the allowed size to 3840x1080).

    Edit: I've tested it now and it still does not allow so high frame size.

  • zserozsero

    OK, I just checked the quality settings in the latest version by installing the free version of GoPro Studio in a clean VirtualBox / Win 7 and checking the filter properties in VirtualDub: This is what you get:

    As you can see, all quality levels are present and supported. The only one missing is the 444 and 4444 feature, for that you need do buy one of the commercial options.

    snap065.png
    433 x 518 - 15K
  • dado023dado023

    ok, so how to import mts from GH2 and export to 10bit 4:2:2, if cinefrom free version doesn't support it....through VirtualDUB? and save to avi?

  • dado023dado023

    did anyone try ffmbc?

Add a Comment