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RED surpassed Beats by Dr Dre margins record selling you just consumer SSD
  • EimulisEimulis

  • 154 Replies sorted by
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I am not sure that topic title is best. :-)

    Most fun is that on PV and other places people fight for RED and never listed, as same thing had been said for years.

    All other camera parts, btw, also have similar margins.

  • EimulisEimulis

    This is really a fun video, I've seen a similar video of Beats headphones disassembly with $10 components inside. Every RED camera user should feel like an idiot after watching this video :) at least every MINI-MAG ssd owner who could buy a Z-CAM E2 for less :DDD

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Eimulis

    As I said, if you just account manufacturing cost of Red camera (and add software development costs) you will get almost same numbers.

  • brudneybrudney

    Haha amazing :) Do people over at reduser know about that video?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @brudney

    I guess that many knew for long time.

    Also, any company can make simple trick by using 3D TLC memory and cheap SSD, but make it function in SLC mode. Such drives retail is about $100 per 1TB, so you are getting around 320GB with 1600-1800 write speed across all size.

    Or just use proper latest controller for SATA, like latest Phison and same 3D TLC without any size penalty

    image

    Write speed is limited by interface

    image

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  • IronFilmIronFilm

    Many redusers have egg on their face now! When you compare their original comments about Jinnitech vs now!

    Haha amazing :) Do people over at reduser know about that video?

    There is a thread discussing it over on reduser right now

  • brudneybrudney

    What's amazing is how furiously RED fanboys defend that RedMag scam 0_o

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @brudney

    You never saw owners defending various weird bad things? :-) happens all the time.

  • brudneybrudney

    Yeah, I know, it's too much to expect people to act sensibly ;)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @brudney

    Main thing that Red owners must understand is that RED is not their friends.
    Their main goal is to rip them as much as possible and lie as much as possible in the process.

  • EimulisEimulis

    Yeah, but once they acknowledge that fraud, they make themselves idiots, who spent fortunes on overpriced RED gear :DD

  • jleojleo

    yes...but what's inside the RED camera? Canon HV20 :)

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  • CFreakCFreak

    @jleo apparently Linus shows all!

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @CFreak

    RED issue is idea to put many connectors in camera body and usage of many FPGA (some outdated and power hungry).

    RED has huge socialization issues, as if not all this elitism and patents plus proper universal chips and much more developers worldwide it can be around 6-10x cheaper.

  • CFreakCFreak

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev their first lens to go with the Red one camera, was a $300 18-50mm 2.8 still photography lens, in a Cine Style lens housing and cost 10x more with their name on it. I knew from them on something was fishy! https://www.ebay.com/itm/RED-18-50-T3-PL-Mount-Cine-Zoom-Lens-ARRI-RED/192981160047?hash=item2cee92d06f:g:ueMAAOSwjW5dI6cp. I believe it is this lens, rehoused: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_18–50mm_f/2.8_EX_DC_Macro_lens

  • EimulisEimulis

    Rip RED...

  • TheNiniTheNini

    @Eimulis now I wanna see Linus do a DIY RED mag using a standard SSD and some 3D printed stuff.

    I remember a couple years back we had problems during a shot because the RED mag=PC adapter was not worth cuz it was not an "original" adapter and we had to look everywhere for one, I wonder how much of it was just RED bullshiting us

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @TheNini

    You always want half measures.

    Proper thing to wish is to have all Red top management removed and all proper engineers used to make cameras that really fulfill people needs. Not to make maximized profits. But this does not work in capitalism.

    As Red is not much different, if you get all latest fancy lenses you will NEVER EVER be able to get real manufacturing costs and component costs for them. As my talks with insiders tell me - such info is considered for company to be worst possible crime, much worse than killing 50 man.

    Same is true for all latest fancy FF cameras. Sony is being able to sell older models it with all transportation, taxes and nice profit now for less than $800. And their manufacturing costs are only around 10-12% lower than newest model. And all this costs already include lot of greedy investment funds, banks fees, bad marketing, top managers with huge salaries and premiums - all of this is around 30% of total cost if you sum it from all the departments and companies that make parts.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Watch how bigger companies marketing work, they buy big channels, not directly but they'll get their stuff with time in terms of hardware or better service or such.

    "Made in US" claim is being accurately attacked using fully false arguments, as they try to attach UK laws (that are different) and substitute US laws and contrary to original video - spending few second on it all. Attack had been necessary as it is dangerous claims and can cause consequence if buyers will understand that it is scam.

    "Capacity claim", RED clearly and openly told that 512GB capacity is more than 480GB, so bringing here any "raw capacity" and obvious claims is extremely bad approach.

    "Extra bits" part is completely words play, as it is CAMERA FIRMWARE that is intentionally made to behave bad with any SSDs except certain models. Same way as camera designers do towards 3rd party batteries. It is not crime in capitalism society (as it is company owners and investors who write the laws), but it is clear crime against society interests.

    "Cripple" part is extremely bad marketing trick, as original video NEVER had anything about such. And never had been designed for people to think so. They just tried to find reasons of huge cost and found that RED ALWAYS selected worst possible option, including temperature operation or cells type.

    "Faking customized firmware" part is completely out of this world. As you never will see ASUS who will start declaring that they made their own GPU and memory and that it had been millions in expenses and if you disassembly card and see Nvidia and Samsung parts - you are moron and it is still Asus product.

    "Millions spent" claim is specially scripted and fully misleading part where Linus suddenly tell you that it is related to RED Raw. It is not. Original Red post had been ONLY about media cost.

    "Infringed" claim is fully false, as it is legal thing, and as far as I see it is no legal court decision that had been made. And I doubt Red want such.

    Most FUN part is explanation of 4Gb files structure - as this structure is made to not pay for more advanced file systems, it is tiny money, but Red does not want it.

    Telling that it is ok to pay to fraudsters 10x-20x price is complete shite. It just means that many other good firms who make cinema gear and accessories will never get their money and instead they will go into new luxury stuff for top management and investors.

    Defending scam IS HORRIBLE PRACTICE that shows how media become prostitutes working for owners even if not open.

  • kellar42kellar42

    Did you watch all of Linus' video? It took a pretty hard turn for RED, he thinks the millions spent is bullshit precisely because he might believe it of Redraw but not of this situation. Seemed measured to me, he was not surprised but disgusted, and they seem to hate him on Reduser. I suppose it could be all some deep conspiracy to seem to be tough on RED but actually say it isn't so bad...but a lot of what you lay out point by point it seemed to be Linus was of the same opinion as you in the video.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @kellar42

    Yes I did, as he is professional he used last pointless part to cover first part that had been made according to RED interests.

    Also, it is not conspiracy to think that big channel that uses RED as their main cameras will be supportive to this company, as making real extremely hard and honest video will definitely create small further problems. And lot of other sponsors and advertisers won't like it.

  • EspenBEspenB

    "The drives used in the red mags have an identifier in the firmware that the camera recognizes as a Red mag. If you tried to use just an off the shelf SSD it wouldn't read as a red mag - unless you copied the code from a real red mag and flashed it onto the new ssd. That's the "spoofing" part. "

    True or not?

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @EspenB

    I think it is not, as it is very complex to make properly.
    Firmware just check for specific SSD model that is mainly used in original mags.

    We'll see more tech details from Jinni soon.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Small other comment.

    Thing that we see here comes from pure greed.

    For Red it had been quite simple and affordable to make custom board with original custom connector and also order assembly of such SSD. It'll be still SATA SSD with same normal firmware, but at least with selected chips, high temperature overload and may be more features.

    All this mumbo jumbo about complex SSDs tests usually fall flat as you ask about exact test being used, as around 99% of the time it is just some standard common benchmark that is being run in specific sequence with files copy process.

  • EimulisEimulis

    The first part of Linus video is complete trash! It seems like Red is using Linus Tech with a plan to find a way out of this scandal releasing RAID mags ...and turning this farce into cash :))

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