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GH2 Cake v2.3: reliability and spanning in 720p, HBR, 24p, and VMM at 2-2.5x stock bit rates
  • 609 Replies sorted by
  • paralionparalion

    CAKE seems, from it description, almost exactly what I am looking for. High Quality, Spanning and reliability. Truth to be told, the quality is atm TOO high for my budget. Why? HD Space and usability. First of all, I sometimes need to film performances, so I need a recording time of 1h40minuts (or 2H) on a 32GB Card at least. Second I will be shooting approx 100 hours for a doc in Africa soon and I dont want to carry more than 2TB Harddisks with me.

    By default, on a 32GB Card, Cake 2.1 records

    24H > 1h1m
    24L > 1h17m
    HBR (25p) > 1h17m
    720p PAL > 1h17m

    I intend solve the problem like that:

    Change the bitrate for 24L to, lets say, 35Mbit
    (End Users>AVCHD Compression > VideoBitrate 24L > changing to 35000000)

    So here's my noob question: Is this the right approach? Will 24L record stable and flawlessly? Or does that interfere with the other settings in the experimental section? GOP size, etc...

    Needless to say I don't care about Interlaced modes. :)

  • RammsteinRammstein

    i restart camera settings and 24h is ok. 24L not ok. 24L look bad. Can be memory card problem?

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  • balazerbalazer

    Ok, then use 24H. I didn't do much testing in 24L. 24L is there with a slightly lower bit rate just in case something goes wrong in 24H.

    paralion, the GOP3 I am using in Cake is not well suited to lower bit rates. Changing the bit rate settings on your own may have unintended consequences, and would require testing. For lower bit rates with spanning, try Cbrandin 44M or Sanity, in 24L mode.

  • RammsteinRammstein

    Thanks for response and cake.

  • paralionparalion

    hm, so then I guess I have to just change 24H to 35Mbit, since I dont have a working HQ-LQ option.

  • paralionparalion

    @balazer thanks for the advice! (Cbrandin 44M and Sanity both span in all modes, right?)

  • balazerbalazer

    Sanity and Cbrandin 44m span in 24L, not 24H.

  • paralionparalion

    d'oh! Still have too keep on looking for the perfect setting. A reliable one that spans in all modes and has a good 24L mode for long recordings, too. If that would be included one day -> whohoo! (anyway thanks for all the work you put into all that testing!)

  • balazerbalazer

    I don't think you'll be disappointed with Cbrandin 44M or Sanity in 24L mode. At lower ISOs, you'll hardly notice the difference.

    There is no such thing as perfection here. Every choice is a trade-off, and we're quite constrained by the way the GH2 encoder works.

  • arvidtparvidtp

    pardon my asking, but what negative effect does that irregular frame size in 24L have on the resulting video? So far I have not noticed any problems with cake's 24L on my GH2, but my testing has been limited.

  • balazerbalazer

    For rate control problems like that, it really depends on what you're shooting. The problem might not be noticeable at all.

    Better stick to 24H mode. I'll make that my standard recommendation from now on. Cake was optimized for 24H, HBR, and SH, not 24L or H. I put 24L mode in there with a slightly lower bit rate, but I had only done a little bit of testing. Everything seemed fine, but I can't say whether the problem Rammstein is reporting now is an isolated anomaly or a bigger problem with 24L. And even if I thought that there is a problem with 24L mode, I'm not even sure how I could fix it, because I make the rate control work by tuning the GOP table values to the Top bit rate setting, and there is no separate GOP table for 24L. If I were to change 24L mode at all, I would probably just change it to match 24H mode. But that would of course remove 24L as a lower bit rate option in case of problems in 24H. So I'll probably just leave things the way they are. 24L should be thought of as a back-up option, in case you can't get a shot in 24H. If you need lower bit rates, Cake cannot deliver. My approach doesn't give me the flexibility to set 24H mode and 24L mode much different from each other. 24L was set only a little bit below 24H, so you're not losing much by not using it.

  • fehafeha

    @balazer I suggest that you make a separate version of timelapse , so there will be less confusion. And thank you for great Cake 2.0 I use them now on both GH2/GF2

  • mozesmozes

    @Rammstein seems like lost focus, do jou have autofocus on?

  • cbrandincbrandin

    @moxes

    Good call... I've also seen this kind of thing when autofocus starts to hunt.

  • pdluminapdlumina

    @cbrandin so basically a stream parser graphic with IBP spikes at different levels on a single shot doesn't necessarily mean that the settings/bitrate/scaling are wrong, but is natural since the bitrate adjusts to detail and motion on the scene?

    Does this mean that a perfectly stable and 'healthy' looking stream parser graphic is achieved with static shots with objects, panoramas that rarely change?

  • RammsteinRammstein

    mozes. manual focus only.The problem occurs after 7 or 12 seconds in 24 L.

  • RammsteinRammstein

    Manual focus only.Seem to be the only one with this problem.

  • mozesmozes

    @Rammstein, film moving objects.
    Those static images don't say anything, except a real nice image...
    I have it some times, but i never see it back in the clip, only in streamparser... let streamplayer play the clip, so you can see way it hapens, a small vibration in the camera does give that strange behavior, becouse its in a moment out off focus, after that the focus is back and the codec in the gh2 pick up where it was.....

  • RammsteinRammstein

    Thank you all for advice. When I finish college exams I'll do detailed tests. I have not much time now.

  • balazerbalazer

    New: Cake v2.2

    • Improved rate control in 24L

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2123/gh2-cake-v2.2-reliability-and-spanning-in-720p-hbr-24p-and-vmm-at-2-2.5x-stock-bit-rates/p1

    I was able to reproduce and correct Rammstein's issue in 24L mode. 24H was unaffected. Rate control in 24L is looking more uniform now.

    That being said, Cake is optimized for 24H, HBR, and SH modes, and has been tested mostly in those modes. 24L and H are provided with lower bit rates, in case you need them and you're not able to reflash the camera. If you require lower bit rates, I recommend using more efficient settings, e.g. using longer GOPs and B-frames.

  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp

    This is with Cake 2.0 (can't keep up!!). Just on-board sound, and a very silly story my daughter and I put together, so she could have a go at planning and editing a video as she and her friends are starting to have fun with cameras. A late Easter present. Enjoy!

  • arvidtparvidtp

    @balazer - thanks so much for cake! videos look beautiful. And thanks for fixing 24L - might give me just that extra amount of time on a 32GB card that i need for safety shooting performances if i don't have a chance to re-flash with something lower.

    And - a heads up for those using Cake and editing with FCPX: in FCPX 10.0.4 i got some weird glitchy blocking in a number of frames of a 24H clip in a complex, sharply detailed scene when i let FCP do the ingesting (bushes outside in the sun, cat - handheld and very sharp - can post screengrab when i'm back at my own machine). Glitches were of course not there when raw .MTS files were opened in Quicktime 7 using Panasonic AVCAM importer plugin or in Mplayer - it was just in the .mov files that FCPX created on import. And it was just that one clip. Hopefully an isolated incident. I have not seen this before with other hack settings, so maybe there is something about Cake settings that FCPX doesn't like… ?

    Anyway, if there are any FCPX users here - i'd suggest you check your clips before erasing your card, or convert to .mov manually. (This actually prompted me to write an applescript last night to batch re-wrap .MTS files to .mov using quicktime 7 with Panasonic AVCAM importer component installed, something i'd been meaning to do for a while - i know this is not the place, but will share if interest)

    Thanks again!

  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp

    @arvidtp Interesting observation as I'm editing in Sony Vegas and getting quite a few glitches in that software too. Mine are strange random black / green frames, or strange random video level changes. Might be my software rather than the camera files, but am going to try converting first before editing Cake rushes to narrow down the problem. Maybe some of these high / variable bitrate settings cause problems with editors?

    EDIT: no - it's just Vegas not playing nice with my CUDA GPU card, so nothing to do with Cake.

    However, can anyone else using Cake use touchscreen to do touch-af using Cake? Just that my GH2 refuses to do this now - it just brings up the yellow "set area" dialogue. I have posted this elsewhere on PV and plan to re-flash with Cake 2.2 but I thought I'd ask the Cake People if anyone's noticed this issue with their GH2.

  • RammsteinRammstein

    Balazer - The Problem ( 24L) is Gone with Cake v2.2. 24L tested in different conditions:rotating and moving the camera , light or dark conditions, static camera . 24L - rock solid .Thanks for quickly repair. Mark_the_Harp - touch-af using Cake works fine for me.

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  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp

    @Rammstein Thanks for confirming the AF thing - and the files you posted look good, so for both those reasons I'm going to reflash with Cake 2.2

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