100Mbps Flow Motion v1.11 Failsafe Patch with HBR 25p & 50p modes

Zaven13

@oscillian. one explanation for the recording time determined in the camera could be based on the bit rate specified for each setting. Based on 24H=99000000, 64GB comes to 90 minutes and 24L=12500000 would translate to 13 hours. The actual time will change as SD card is used to record because bit rates will very due to amount of detail in the scenes.

jam

@LPowell Newbie pedestal question. In PP CS5.5 pedestal can be adjusted in Effects>Color Correction>Luma Corrector. Range between -1 to +1. YC Waveform display range is from -20 to +120 IRE. Presumably this corresponds (is mapped to) RGB levels, but what RGB levels? I.e., is 100 = 235 RGB and 0 = 15? I can't find any way to show RGB levels in PP and perhaps as this is dependent upon encoding in camera a good thing.

For example, If 0 IRE = 15 RGB and 100 IRE = 235 RGB, then the least reduction in pedestal using the Luma Correct adjustment in PP would be -0.01 which would be equivalent to a reduction of 0.01 (220 levels) or -2.2 RGB levels. Is this how to think about this?

Thanks.

balazer

Whether or not any pedestal correction is required depends on how the application converts from YUV to RGB. The correct thing for an application to do is to expand the 16-235 YUV range to 0-255 in RGB, so that everything will look correct on your screen with no additional adjustment. But NLEs are all over the place on this. Some don't expand the range at all. Some expand partway. Scopes built into NLEs should generally not be regarded as accurate for this reason. (and there are plenty of documented cases of NLE scopes being inaccurate)

jam

@balazer Any idea of how Premiere Pro handles this?

wigginjs

@LPowell Do I understand correctly that for low-light shooting with Flow Motion you recommend the MJPEG format as opposed to the AVCHD formats? How "low" does the light need to be before I should be using MJPEG?

LPowell

@balazer How is an NLE supposed to know where the black level in a video is intended to be, if not zero? It's not like the elders who concocted these analog-era practices anticipated the need to provide a means of positively identifying content that's formatted in this manner. As you pointed out with the PsF issue, these video streams are no different in the way they're encoded, they just happen to contain specially-formatted content.

The fact is that these archaic television "standards" have become hazardous pitfalls that we all have to learn how to reckon with. Even in cases where an NLE is clever enough to auto-detect something byzantine like pull-down sequence, it must still provide a manual override option for unusual cases. With color correction, the way Premiere and After Effects handle this situation is precisely the way I want it - don't attempt to remap the color space behind my back, just show me exactly what's encoded in the video stream and I'll determine how to best deal with it.

oscillian

@Zaven13 I think you're on the money.

LPowell

@wigginjs - "How "low" does the light need to be before I should be using MJPEG?"

If you're more than two stops underexposed on the GH2's light meter, you'll get higher bitrate with MJPEG than with AVCHD.

csync

@LPowell - I ran the analysis you suggested and it looks exactly how you described.

kavadni

@LPowell, by 'GH2's light meter' do you mean the -3 +3 scale?

balazer

Rec. 601 and 709 define black and white levels.

No NLE can show you exactly what is encoded in the video, because displays are not YUV and our eyes are not YUV. There needs to be a conversion to RGB before you can see, and rec. 601 and 709 say how that conversion should be performed. NLE authors are just lazy about adhering to the standards, in some cases.

LPowell

@balazer - "Rec. 601 and 709 define black and white levels."

Yes, but Canon DSLR's record H.264 video using the full-swing 0-255 range. This makes it impractical for After Effects to rigidly apply the studio-swing 16-235 range to all H.264 videos, regardless of what the Rec 709 standard calls for. I don't want the NLE to try to hide these discrepancies, I simply want it to show me, without adulteration, the video waveform displays, which both Premiere and Color Finesse can display in either YUV or RGB color spaces.

sam_stickland

@jam Add a Levels effects and set your input black to 16.

LPowell

Flow Motion v1.11 Patch updated with failsafe PAL 25/50p modes

See the first post of this thread for info and downloadable INI file:

http://www.personal-view.com./talks/discussion/2099/100mbps-flow-motion-v1.11-updated-with-failsafe-pal-2550p-modes/p1

LPowell

LPowell

Flow Motion v1.11 Patch updated with failsafe PAL 25/50p modes

See the first post of this thread for info and downloadable INI file:

http://www.personal-view.com./talks/discussion/2099/100mbps-flow-motion-v1.11-updated-with-failsafe-pal-2550p-modes/p1

Rambo

Thank you Lee, just what I've been waiting for. Some high stress real world 720p50 ocean motion footage coming up shortly with 14 - 140 kit lens, Sandisc Extreme 30MB/s card, auto ISO and idynamic. Will shoot some ETC as well. Shutters from 1/50 to 1/250.

R

ronnylov

I wonder if I have made something wrong because I get a setting of only 8 Mbit/s bitrate in 720P FH mode, it is actually lower than the original of 12 Mbit/s. I am using version 1.11. Maybe the setting should have been 80 Mbit/s in Ptool? I noticed this first by the very long available recording time on my SD card when switching from FH to F. I use PAL settings (720P50).

Rambo

@ronnylov, check your shutter is not less than 1/50.

Zaven13

@LPowell. I am confused. you indicated "it also supports failsafe operation all NTSC modes except for ETC mode in HBR 30p and FSH 60i". I have already tested ETC with NTSC 1080p/30 HBR and 1080i/60 FSH successfully using Flow Motion v1.1. I used Sandisk Extreme 32gb 30mb/s card.

Mr_Moore

@ronnylov The video bit rate settings in v1.1 and v1.11 are identical:

Video Bitrate 24H=99,000,000

Video Bitrate 24L=12,500,000

Video Bitrate FSH/SH=99,000,000

Video Bitrate FH/H=8,000,000

In v1.0 Video Bitrate FH/H was a little higher at 10,000,000.

The only difference between v1.1 and v1.11 is the value of the “Quantizer for 720 modes” setting. It changed from 18 in v1.1 to 20 in v1.11

feha

can this hack be played back on cam ? Edit: OK got it, it works ok now, very stable, have not tested spanning on HBR 25 ...

Tomaso

@LPowell Strange I still get only around 18 mbits in 1.11 HBR mode. The only GOP1 setting that have given me more in Firmware version 1.1 is Quantum 100 v3b. Quantum x v2 rocket HBR also only give me around 20 mbits.

royfel

In NTSC 30fps I am getting a video bit rate of 44 with 1.11

ronnylov

@ Mr_Moore: "Video Bitrate FH/H=8,000,000"

How come the first post say "50Mbps AVCHD in 24L 1080p24, FH 1080i50/60, and H 720p50/60 video modes"? I wanted to try the 50 Mbps 720p50 mode. Does really a setting of 8 Mbit/s result in 50 Mbps files? I get something like 7 hours 48 minutes recording time reported by the camera with my 32 MB card after formatting and then set to 720p50 H mode. In 720p50 SH mode I get something like 42 minutes left on an empty 32 MB SD card. If bitrate is reduced from 100 Mbps to 50 Mbps I would expect the recording time to be almost double (the audio bitrate is the same so it would be a little bit less than double), so something like 1h 20m would be correct.

It could be nice to have a 720p50 setting that spans on slower class 10 SD cards, that is why I wanted to test 720p50 at 50 fps to see if it is a good compromize between qaulity and file size and to see if it spans without any problems.

Anyway I think this is a great setting really good quality at the higher bitrate modes but then I don't get much recording time on my SD card. So I am searching for a good comprmize.

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