iMac Fake Pro Computer coming fall 2017

Vitaliy_Kiselev

27" IPS 5K 500nit screen (means no HDR)
8-bit panel, uses dithering to emulate 10 bits
soldered Xeon CPUs
soldered RAM
soldered SSD
soldered GPU
completely non upgradable mess
cost from $5000, but it is only 8 core CPU, minimum ram and HDD

alcomposer

Correct term is not "fake Mac Pro", correct term is "disposable Mac Pro"

Whatever happened to Apples commitment to sustainability and landfill. Having a system that can be upgraded reduces e-waste.

utezet

It can't get worse. This is the most anoying announcement for a product that is available only in 6 months i ever heard of. I have a silent setup with a gtx 1070, 6700K, 32 Gb ram, 28" 4K HDR screen for 1500 Euros and it cuts on resolve 14 like butter. It`s in fact my first Computer ever, that is fast enough to do what i want. Why should anyone need this price monster? I think capitalists won, we are helpless.

alcomposer

@utezet remember you don't need to purchase this "iMac Pro" I know I won't be. However at least Apple are making computers again. For a while it was touch and go.

2018 Real Mac Pro I would like to see without any solder anywhere. Ship it to me with a soldering iron IKEA style please!

utezet

I am waiting for a mac mini update for years now. I use a 2006 mac mini as media center, television and stereo substitution. This little guy worked well but cant get updated anymore. And it seems to get slower and slower now. I dont know why. i used it without any issue for years, didn`t change anything and now it slows down every day. Not usable anymore. And what do they announce? Something that is also useless for me. Aargh.

4CardsMan

If you like to roll your own, no one is stopping you. I quite doing that after I retired. It is just wonderful to simply buy a computer that does what you need, plug it in, and go to work. For those of us who do not like hassle, the extra cost is worth it. If I worked with multi-cam 4K with loads of effects, I would pre-order this machine now. As it is, the new iMac 21" works for me. $1600 buys a 4K-ready machine with 16GB RAM, all that you need for FCPX. I want to spend my time on actual work, not continuously sharpening my tools.

alcomposer

For users that don't want to spend any time choosing hardware- then this is really a great choice. The iMac line has always been about simplicity, this is it in its extreme form.

Personally I have always had peculiar needs for hardware. (Multi-gpu rendering etc) sound cards- video cards.

That's why I'm very interested to see what Apple bring out for the Mac Pro. Oh, and I 100% need it to be in space grey. (Would be nice as a space grey cube- like the Next Box)

johnnymossville

They keep saying Mac Pro is coming in 2018. That seems like so far away. WTF Apple? My workplace just OK'd a new computer purchase for me but it's looking like I might start pushing them for a PC.

bwhitz

lol... I've seen the mac-boys everywhere drooling over this and claiming that it's "impossible" to build a similar specced PC for this price. Amazing...

alcomposer

@bwhitz honestly here are the costs associated with a Xeon build here in Australia, using iMac Pro minimum Core count, RAM, SSD & Network:

i7-6900K 1299 $AUD
Vega Pro (1080TI cost equivalent) 999 $AUD
Samsung 850 EVO Msata 1TB 444 $AUD
16G Kit (8Gx2) 3000 Corsair Vengeance Black (*2) 358 $AUD
Asus X99-E 289 $AUD
Intel® Dual 10Gbps Copper RJ45 370 $AUD
CASE: R5 Titanium 155 $AUD
PSU: HX1000i 319 $AUD
COOLING: H100i V2 179 $AUD
27" 5ms 4K IPS (3840x2160) Speaker Asus MX27UQ 868 $AUD
TOTAL: 5280 $AUD = 3986.45 $USD as of 7th June 2017

NOTES:

CPU: I used a 2011 Xeon, I don't know if the iMac Pro is a 2011 chipset.
PSU: I like my PSU's powerful (if you want to do the maths with a cheeper PSU then no problems)
CASE: The case needs to be useful for mounting everything for good cooling etc, no point using a $45 case with such an expensive build, (if you want to use a $45 case, subtract $110, or maybe just not have a case and have the parts lying on the floor?)
COOLING: Just used a closed-loop unit, custom water cooling can be much more expensive.
MOTHERBOARD: Not a motherboard I would normally choose- as has very little PCI ports, but then this kind of works out well for comparing to iMac. You do however get one free PCI when assembled- which you will need for Decklink Card if you use Resolve on Linux.
EXPANDABILITY: MOTHERBOARD, CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD, NETWORK, COOLING can all be upgraded
Windows 10 cost not added, use Linux for free OS (Resolve works fine on Linux)
ALL parts except 10gbe card from: http://www.msy.com.au/Parts/PARTS.pdf
I intentionally chose the cheapest parts, no guarantee that they all work together perfectly, normally I spend more time working that out for my own builds, but in theory they should all work.
There is no 1080 web cam with this build
You still need to put this whole thing together, install OS, install drivers, test - etc, which would take a few hours, and substantially more time on Linux.

NOTES 2 (Software costs):

WINDOWS

CC 57.99 $AUD per month
W10 209 $AUD
Resolve free (no ProRes iirc)
Resolve Studio 475 $AUD (no ProRes iirc)
Fusion Studio 1535 $AUD
Fusion 8 free
Affinity Photo (photo shop alternative, no cloud subscription) 62.99 $AUD

MAC

Sierra free
FCPX 499 $AUD
FCPX Color Finale 100 $AUD
Resolve free (as its Mac version ProRes included if that's your workflow)
Resolve Studio 475 $AUD
Fusion 8 free
Fusion Studio 1535 $AUD
CC 57.99 $AUD per month
Affinity Photo (photo shop alternative, no cloud subscription) 62.99 $AUD

LINUX

CentOS free
Resolve free (no ProRes iirc) (needs 150 $AUD Decklink Card for audio iirc)
Resolve Studio 475 $AUD (needs 150 $AUD Decklink Card for audio iirc)
Fusion 8 free
Fusion Studio 1535 $AUD
GIMP free

NOTES 3

All software based on commercial price, not Student price- or 'pirated' price. Obviously if you pirate all your software then these costs don't apply to you, however costs are coming down substantially for software, so very little incentive to pirate in 2017 - especially with 'free' versions of Resolve etc...
In future, Windows may move to subscription model, so that may change costs etc...

Amadeus5D2

I like Surface Studio, ....Mac engineers what you are doing all the year round, all what your leaders like?!

alcomposer · Screen Shot 2017-06-07 at 6.19.04 pm.png

@Amadeus5D2 I thought we were discussing Xeon builds?

AU$ 4,699 for a i5 with 8gb of RAM is a bit crazy.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@alcomposer

First, as far as I remember Australian customs, you can order it almost all from US or EU (without VAT). Just use your family members and do not do it all at once.

Second, for software use right approach. Instead of sponsoring capitalism.

Third, build can be much more frugal with you just remove unnecessary things and make specs normal. Can as well go AMD route.

alcomposer

I don't quite know how paying for software is sponsoring capitalism. Technically buying anything is sponsoring capitalism.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@alcomposer

I don't quite know how paying for software is sponsoring capitalism. Technically buying anything is sponsoring capitalism.

Well, you are wrong. Software is the goods that have zero cost for manufacturer to make one more copy.

I can understand support of small developer, this is good thing to do in the sharks world. But sponsoring corporation is stupid.

alcomposer

Well I agree with that. I try to use alternatives when possible. Hence using affinity photo as opposed to photoshop. But for Photoshop I have different issue. I find it hard to ethically use software that will render my files ransom if I don't pay. Otherwise I would gladly pay if i needed to use the software, without alternative.

Also remember small guys software can be much more expensive, look at Nuke Etc. (Much more specialised- powerful and smaller install base)

Mind you this is why I have a soft spot for open software, as software shouldn't have any cost, and rather the developers should be supported.

Anyway, is my build a bit expense? I think that's quite good prices for such a rig. MSY is very competitive.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Well I agree with that. I try to use alternatives when possible.

No need to use alternatives even, but no need to sponsor corporation either.

Mind you this is why I have a soft spot for open software, as software shouldn't have any cost, and rather the developers should be supported.

I do not have any soft spot for so called "open source" software.

Without removing capitalism it is good example of uneducated people cooperation who want to make good thing but turn out to be blatant profanity, just other way to exploit people. One of research showed that big open source libraries and soft remain open as it is handy for now, yet 70-80% of all code are made by corporate bees who just work on it during work hours, sometimes from important commits corporate bees part can reach almost 100%. So, it is just way for corporation to cut workforce expanses by firing double positions and make remaining work more.

alcomposer

There are some open software projects worked on by very inteligent people, and many developers move on to larger proprietary software.

The problem is that in many open projects it's possible to see code commits Etc, unlike closed software. So we get to see much more "colourful" issues.

I really didn't want to turn this thread into a software debate. I just wanted to compare iMac Pro to what I could build from parts, and the cost. Also considering all costs associated with build.

I think that a PC will always be cheaper, but it really depends on what people want to purchase anyway.

Striving to purchase the cheapest gear still fulfills capitalist concepts. I don't think Asus, Gigabyte are giving hardware away for free. (I actually own quite a few Gigabyte motherboards and they are great!)

So it's more about the fact that the iMac Pro is about $1000 usd more expensive than PC. Does one get $1000 more worth of "value"? That is up to the individual to decide. Do I think it will be a super-seller? No- it's probably more of an aspirational product anyway.

But as there are many discussions about value I think it's useful to quantify it. The aim was to get as close to iMac as possible, hence why I included 10gbe. (Which I think is a good thing to make standard these days with RAW cameras Etc.)

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Cheaper adapter - https://www.amazon.com/10Gtek-Ethernet-Converged-Network-Adapter/dp/B01LWU8BEB/

But 10Gb is still not home friendly solution. With very expensive parts with margins in thousands percent's range,

I don't think Asus, Gigabyte are giving hardware away for free. (I actually own quite a few Gigabyte motherboards and they are great!)

Btw you'll be shocked to know that around 15% of their MB/budget GPU costs are spent on colorful packing, 15-20% on marketing and around 20% on doubling research and efforts to make same thing but with rgb led, or same thing but black, or same thing as competitor. So if this guys made mostly standardized product sold in simple standard cardboard box you could have 50% of your money saved.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

Btw memory is replaceable at least.

Amadeus5D2

the huge apple logo seems to be the most important think (on the front). Ah, I understand Apple logo is sophisticated like Nike.. Lacoste.. etc. Why they haden't instead fill the whole area as screen. It looks to me very chunky. I guess no surface pen support, what a shame. Can the screen be rotated horizontally ( flat), no?!?.

alcomposer

Good to see memory is replaceable.

Inclusion of 10GbE was simply to bring spec of my build into iMac build. So that we can see the comparative build in PC.

Back of iMac pro inside looks like Rams head. Scary.

davedv

Whatever happened to Apples commitment to sustainability and landfill. Having a system that can be upgraded reduces e-waste.

Apple has been moving toward non-upgradable designs for quite some time now. In part because most consumers seem to care more about whether a product is thin and light, than whether it is upgradable, repairable, or sustainable.

This article from a few years back, tracks some of Apple's path toward designs for products that are effectively disposable: http://ifixit.org/blog/2763/the-new-macbook-pro-unfixable-unhackable-untenable/

[In 2008] Apple performed a market experiment. They released the super thin, but non-upgradeable, MacBook Air in addition to their two existing, easily upgradeable notebooks: the MacBook and the MacBook Pro. When Apple dropped the MacBook Air to $999 in 2010 to match the price point of the MacBook, they gave users a clear choice: the thin, light, and un-upgradeable MacBook Air or the heavier, longer lasting, more rugged, and more powerful MacBook. Same price, two very different products ...

It was up to us: did we want a machine that would be stuck with 2 GB of RAM forever? Would we support laptops that required replacement every year or two as applications required more memory and batteries atrophied?

Consumers overwhelmingly voted yes, and the Air grew to take 40% of Apple’s notebook sales by the end of 2010.

CFreak

@davedv it's also called "designed obsolescence".

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@davedv

Apple has been moving toward non-upgradable designs for quite some time now. In part because most consumers seem to care more about whether a product is thin and light, than whether it is upgradable, repairable, or sustainable

It is reverse view. It is Apple who had been vastly interested in such designs as they are much cheaper to make, hence bigger profits.

@CFreak

it's also called "designed obsolescence".

I find this term bad. As it assumes that some group of bad individuals made decision to design product in such way and did it mostly because they are bad people. In reality is whole system that constantly reproduce same issues and you can't do much with them (despite various conferences and speeches) without destroying system.

alcomposer

Very true. I'm thinking of purchasing a 2011 Xeon Asus motherboard, but it will be obsolete very soon... (Serious)

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