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Are all POWER OIS lenses unsuitable for handheld shooting?
  • 143 Replies sorted by
  • konjowkonjow

    Shutter low or higher may effect issue as well Maybe include this in your tests.

  • VeskuVesku

    I have tested all shutter speeds. Of course jittering shows less with very long shutter speeds or with blurred background like 24P judder. MEGA OIS lenses has no jitter at any speed. Focusing distance may affect too, I think there is less jitter with close up shots than at long distance. Best way to avoid jitter is to keep the camera in motion all the time. Very slow pan or movement hides jitter.

  • v10tdiv10tdi

    @Vesku A bit hard to say what is going on with the video you referenced. Could be jitter...could be jello...could be both...could be something else. I also don't know which firmware was being used for the GH4 or 42.5mm lens.

    I did my quick test yesterday using the same capture/settings that I used for my previous test (1080p30, ExTele, SS125, f4). I don't have the GH3 anymore, so technically, I'll need to recreate the entire test scenario. I'll probably add the 14-140mm v2 lens into the mix just to be complete.

    I did roughly the same testing process when I confirmed the "shutter shock" problem with the 14-140mm v2 lens (which is a pretty bad problem - another thread for that though). The challenge with video is that it just takes more time to assemble the footage into a movie - and my time is in very short supply at the moment.

    HS35100 OIS Comparison from v10tdi on Vimeo.

  • sportstersportster

    @Vesku: I fully confirm your findings. I owned many Panasonic bodies and lenses. The Vimeo and Youtube examples referred in this topic are showing the typical behaviour.

    Mega OIS lenses do not seem to be affected.
    Many Power OIS lenses seem to be affected. I tested 12-35 (minor jitter, especially at 35mm), 35-100 (very bad, very stong jitter), 14-140II (more jitter than 12-35, visible at all focal lengths).
    Issue seems to be independent from body (I tested GM1, GX7, GH1, GH2, GH3, GH4).

    AFAIK, Panasonic never confirmed this issue. I have to use NLE stabilizers to make handheld shots usable.

  • VeskuVesku

    @sportster

    Thanks for that info. It is indeed quite difficult to find out what is going on. All my stationary handheld shots (14-140 II) needs post stab. Panasonic Europe service says that they dont know that issue at all. I cant get another lens in my hands. Is this a fault or a feature? Is a good rig or a tripod the only way? Is there going to be a FW fix?

  • sportstersportster

    Some more findings I forgot to mention:

    35-100 has the best Power OIS for photos. It is the only telephoto zoom which avoids Shutter Shock on bodies without Electronic Shutter like GH1 and GH2. This lens seems to be optimized for photos.
    The tiny PZ 14-42 has a Power OIS as well, but does NOT Show any jitter. I really like this lens.
    The PZ 45-175 shows minor jitter as well. Comparable with 14-140II.

    On the other hand, the tiny 12-32 lens has a Mega OIS, but nevertheless shows some minor jitter.

    I wonder why Panasonic continues denying this issue. It is clearly proven by many video samples.

  • brudneybrudney

    I don't own 12-35 but every picture of it I've seen clearly shows 'Power OIS'.

  • sportstersportster

    I'm talking about the tiny 12-32/3.5-5.6 lens here, which is part of the GM1 kit.

  • davidp158davidp158

    I would like to know if Panasonic has acknowledge problems with the H-HS35100 lens' O.I.S. performance. I purchased this lens, only to return it because the O.I.S. was unstable when hand held. The O.I.S. with my Panasonic 14-140 (first version) and 12-35 lenses work fine. As so many people have issues with the 35-100mm for handheld video shots, I would urge everyone to bring this to Panasonic's attention. Maybe with enough barking we can get them to acknowledge the problem, and maybe even attempt to fix it.

    Example video of the lens I purchased:

    Other examples (some of which were already mentioned here):

    http://picturez.smugmug.com/Videos/n-9Hcwt/i-L7VPbwH/A

    password: test

  • VeskuVesku

    I think we must send our lenses to Panasonic service. Maybe then they will take that issue seriously. If they find nothing faulty I guess we must pay some checking payment and posting. Has anybody sent a POWER OIS lens to service due to jittering?

    By the way a new version of Mercalli is coming. Maybe it has good features to fix jittering. I have tested current version (demo) and it removes OIS jittering with very little cropping. The batch processing still crops too much.

    https://www.facebook.com/ProDAD

  • nomadnomad

    With any post stabilizer you'll have the problem of motion blurred frames left.

    I prefer to have the problem cured at the source.

  • nomadnomad

    I had the chance to test a 12-32mm Panny zoom (Mega OIS), a 45-150mm (Mega too) and a 12-35mm Power OIS close to each other. I can confirm that they behave differently, but none is perfect.

    The Mega OIS zooms didn't exhibit the micro-jitters, but instead they show some jumpiness on movements, like panning. It looks as if they stick for a moment and then catch up.

    The Power OIS in the 12-35mm after the firmware update is far better than the one in the 35-100mm, but it shows some residual micro-jitters.

    Since the 12-32mm has no manual controls whatsoever, I'd rather go for the 12-35mm. The 45-150mm OTOH is working quite well if you only want to keep a handheld (actually, shoulder) shot quiet without any movement – and any panning at such lengths I'd rather do from a tripod anyway. Yes, it's slow, but it's sharp from open aperture and the bokeh is not bad.

  • VeskuVesku

    I too had finally today an opportunity to test another 14-140 mm II in a camera store. It behaved exactly the same as my copy. Noticeable micro vibration at 14mm. The salesman said he have talked with Panasonic import people in Finland and they confirmed that they know the issue and Panasonic is maybe working for FW fix. They said also it is a feature, not a fault. So we cant return our lenses or demand a fix.

    At least I know I dont have a faulty lens and on the other hand I know everyone has badly working OIS. I hope that as many as possible could report to service and demand a fix.

  • VeskuVesku

    I made again some heavy testing today with my problem lens Pana 14-140 II. I shooted with a short monopod. I attached a heavy weight to monopods lower end and used it leaning to my body (not ground). Image looked very stable in EVF and I made some very slow and perfect pans and moves. When I came home and watched clips the same jittering was there. The OIS is so sensitive that any minor vibration makes it jitter. A good tripod or post stabilization is the only way to get decent shots.

  • v10tdiv10tdi

    So here we go... Which lens is which? Not much of a challenge... I'll post answers after a few days.

  • sherwoodsherwood

    My trusty G Vario 14-45 f3.5-5.6 is fine for outside shooting. Focus is quick and relatively quiet. A real workhorse, and not too expensive. I'm wondering if the jitter problem is more pronounced with the long barrel zooms.

  • TscheckoffTscheckoff

    @sherwood:

    Also love my 14-42mm ii ASPH (the new 2nd edition).
    Dirt cheap - And stable as hell ^^.

  • v10tdiv10tdi

    Lens ID from my test above...

    Test 1/2
    Left to Right
    Top to Bottom
    42.5mm
    12-35mm f2.8
    14-140mm mk 2
    35-100mm f2.8

    Test 3/4
    Left to Right
    100-300mm
    35-100mm f2.8
    14-140mm mk 2

    Test 5/6
    Left to Right
    100-300mm
    14-140mm mk2

  • sportstersportster

    Thank you for your effort and for posting your comparison. This exactly conforms to my own findings on my lens samples (except the 42,5 which I don't own).

    I think that all behaviour is built into these lenses by design. It's not a fault of specific samples. I suppose this might be a consequence of the size/weight relation of the moving parts used for OIS.

    Nevertheless, it's a shame for Panasonic that the most expensive 35-100/2.8 zoom behaves worst and that there is a big difference between the general marketing statements for Power OIS and the reality. OIS of the 35-100/2.8 lens is obviously optimized for stills and not for video. I tested that this lens is the only lens which avoids shutter shock on the older bodies like GH1 and GH2 which don't have an electronic shutter. I really like to use this lens for stills, but I would have appreciated to use it for handheld video as well due to it's great optical quality.

    I'm still hoping that Panasonic will sometimes release a firmware update for the 35-100/2.8 lens which improves the OIS for Video like they did for the 12-35/2.8 lens.

  • v10tdiv10tdi

    @sportster I did extensive "shutter shock" testing with these lenses (and a few others). My testing results indicated that only the 14-140mm mk2 lens had obvious "shutter shock" problem. Unfortunately, the problem is pretty bad with the 14-140mm mk2 lens resulting in pronounced image degradation. As a result of the problem, I have configured one of my Function buttons as a switch for the Electronic Shutter. The Electronic Shutter masks the issue, but has its own drawbacks.

    Back to movies...

    Yes, I agree that to my eye the Power OIS performance of the 35-100mm f2.8 lens exhibited the most severe "micro jitter" of the lenses in my tests, followed by the 14-140mm mk2. The 42.5mm also showed some "micro jitter," but not nearly as much as either the 35-100mm or 14-140mm mk2. To my eye the 12-35mm f2.8 lens had the least "micro jitter" of all the Power OIS lenses I tested. In my opinion, not a problem at all and roughly equivalent to the MEGA OIS of the 100-300mm lens (with allowance for difference in focal length).

    I also tested various stabilization products (SmoothCam and Lock and Load X) and they are both effective at eliminating the "micro-jitter" symptom with only a very small loss of framing. I think less than 1% crop would be enough to eliminate "micro-jitter" effect. Not terrible considering I needed up to 5% crop to eliminate the residual hand-held motion in this test footage (I'm an old, unstable bastard). Practically speaking, if you typically use a software stabilization product like these, then "micro-jitter" is probably not much of an issue. On the other hand, if you are a lazy, old, unstable bastard like me and just pop the card out of your camera and play unedited hand-held footage on your (U)HDTV, then the performance of Power OIS + hand-held movies is annoying at best.

    FWIW - Some months ago I did test Power OIS when the camera was attached to a tripod and did not detect any "micro jitter" with Power OIS on. Before the v1.2 firmware upgrade, my 12-35mm f2.8 lens did exhibit "micro jitter" with Power OIS off.

    When I get more time I'll probably test how these lenses and Power OIS performs when the camera is attached to a monopod.

  • VeskuVesku

    @v10tdi

    Thanks a lot for these tests. It confirms may findings well. I can be sure that my 14-140 v2 is not broken and this is a common property of my lens.

    The only micro jitter free lens in this test seems to be 100-300mm. It follows the hand movement but there is no fast micro jitter. Other lenses corrects hand movement well but then adds the nasty micro jitter. Worst is 35-100, then 14-140 v2, and then about equal 42.5 and 12.35. All these POWER OIS lenses has micro jitter. I wonder why there is so much movement in 100-300mm test, I usually hold my 100-300 much steadier.

    When I compare your POWER OIS tests to my 14-42mm my lens is rock steady handheld, much better than 12-35 or 42.5.

  • sportstersportster

    @Vesku I agree to your findings.

    Are you talking about the 14-42mm 3.5-5.6 II lens? I don't own this lens, but I have the tiny PZ 14-42 3.5-5.6, which is rock steady as well. (BTW, although labelled with POWER OIS).

    Another fine lens without micro jitters is my trusty 45/2.8 Macro with MEGA OIS.

  • VeskuVesku

    I have 14-42mm v1 but I have tested v2 and it seems to work quite identical to v1. v2 has better IQ.

  • TscheckoffTscheckoff

    The 14-42mm V2 works quite well - I´m using it since many months on a GH2 and a GM1.
    Dirt cheap, very lightweight and delivers very good IQ (also fit´s the GM1 perfectly) - Fully recommended ^^.

    LG

  • PiotrJPiotrJ

    Is it reasonable to conclude that for handheld video shooting the 14-140 v1 is better for OIS than the 14-140 v2?

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