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WorkHorse
  • 227 Replies sorted by
  • apefosapefos

    @frullaccia please can you elaborate the benefits and your perceiving of the image quality in the nebula-workhorse? thanks.

  • frullacciafrullaccia

    Sure, as soon as I can get a decent web connection. In a couple of days...

  • apefosapefos

    @frullaccia I prepared this for you, I did no tests yet so I do not know if it will be stable...

    It is the Nebula-Boson (the Scalling Tables and Deblocking Tables from Nebula T8 are merged with the Boson)

    seta.ini
    10K
  • apefosapefos

    @frullaccia thanks for intriguing me about the Nebula

    I am tweaking the versions with Nebula matrix to make it great quality. will upload.

  • apefosapefos

    Boson and WorkHorse Patches for GH2 Hack

    • Works in NTSC or PAL
    • Developed with PTool 3.65d
    • Careful settings for very high image quality with enough stability
    • For short takes up to 5 - 8 minutes
    • Excellent textures and fine random noise
    • Excellent results for images with complex details

    Boson:

    • SH 720p slot: improved for best textures and fine random noise in low light or high iso
    • H 720p slot: same datarate quality of SH, but improved for complex details and low iso
    • HBR: can do both things, good textures and fine random noise or complex details
    • 24p: constant good noise and good complex details, sweet spot for cinema

    WorkHorse:

    • A little more stable in 720p than Boson
    • Both SH and H slots have slightly less noise quality than boson, but are great for details
    • The SH slot has higher datarate than H slot, H slot is an option for better stability
    • HBR has same Boson settings but can be more stable also due to share some 720p settings
    • Same image quality of Boson in 24p

    From seta to sete of Boson (5 versions):

    The difference is: seta has the highest datarate for 720p and hbr, the 720p and HBR datarate decreases a little in each version, this is for you to find the best stable version for your camera+card+lens combo. Try the seta first and change if needed.

    From setf to setj in WorkHorse (5 versions):

    The difference is: setf has the highest datarate for 720p and HBR, the 720p and hbr datarate decreases a little in each version, this is for you to find the best stable version for your camera+card+lens combo. Try the setf first and change if needed.

    Memory Cards: Developed with the Sandisk 32GB SDHC Class 10 U1 45Mbps card. Very fast cards recomended. Use TOP memory card, it can improve stability for more continuous time recording, and for use image stabilization and i-Dynamic.

    Tips: Manual focus legacy lenses allows more stability. Disable image stabilization and i-dynamic when using native electronic lenses for more stability or load a lower datarate version or use a fast memory card.

    Matrix Tables: These versions of september 09 2014 have the Boson and WorkHorse with Flowmotion or Nebula Scalling Tables and Deblocking Tables. Fallback Tables tweaked to deliver more constant size in the frames along the frames's flux.

    Please donate to www.personal-view.com

    boson_workhorse_09_september_2014.zip
    203K
  • frullacciafrullaccia

    Dear Apefos, thanks!! Your latest hacks (8-9 september) are better than ever, at least to my eyes. I'm European, shooting in 24 and 25p modes. While I previously said that Nebula-MoonT8 was the best hack, because of its hbr mode (as for 24P the moon t8 hack shows beautiful pictures, but also some artifacts, moiré, noise, and in my opinion it wasn't so stable), now these Workhorse and Boson-Flowmotion settings look in my screen as if they were the top. Your B and W-Nebula is still a secure and succesful balanced hack, considering sharpening, moiré and noise problems, and it provides very reliable spanning.

  • apefosapefos

    @frullaccia The versions 09 september are the best tweaked . Nice to see you like the image and thanks for the reports.

  • apefosapefos

    this is experimental, to be safe use the 09 september versions.

    Boson - WorkHorse for Super Fast Cards:

    This is an attempt to improve the image quality even more increasing the datarate

    This can help the 720p SH in Boson to be better for complex details

    This can help the 720p SH in WorkHorse to be better for textures and fine random noise

    Try these patches in 80Mbps cards and above

    Try to record a 4GB file in each mode, feedbacks welcome!

    About the datarate increase:

    BF and BN setf = one step above seta

    BF and BN setg = two steps above seta

    WF and WN setd = two steps above setf

    WF and WN sete = one step above setf

    BF = Boson Flowmotion

    BN = Boson Nebula

    WF = Workhorse Flowmotion

    WN = Workhorse Nebula

    This is a complement for the september 09 versions, there is no new settings, just datarate increase, experimental

    super_fast_cards_boson_workhorse.zip
    82K
    BN_setj.zip
    10K
    bn_seth_seti.zip
    20K
  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @apefos Wow!!! so your saying this latest Boson Patch is better than all the previous ones.. that's just amazing. By the way I found a little trick to get even higher Datarate from Boson. Change setting to PAL and shoot 50fps you will see a little increase in image quality. Going to download this latest one and give it a try will report back later. Thanks a lot for all your hard work Cheers.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @apefos Can you clarify one thing for me. (BF) is the standard Boson with the Flowmotion Matrix right? & (BN) is the Nebula Matrix? When you say one step above seta, or two step above seta you mean two times better than the original patches right?

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @apefos Lastest Patch using both 80mbs - 95mbs card with Panasonic 20mm freezes camera almost everytime after 3 seconds - 5 seconds. Going to test with manual lens next will keep you posted. Also I've noticed a little bit of noise in footage even @ ISO-160 Just a quick observation.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @apefos Lastest Patch using manual lens with 95mbs card stops recording after 6 seconds and camera freezes. For right now the older Boson Patch is really stable. Try lowering the bitrate just a little bit I think that should do the trick. The I-Frames are the Highest I've seen in 720p one of my shots hit the 429 mark.

  • JayUKBJayUKB

    I've tried the new patch - BN setg.

    Same thing, camera locks up - card speed error

  • JayUKBJayUKB

    @TrackZillas

    Are you using the 720p on 50p or 60p? And, which patch are you finding best?

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    Hey @JayUKB I'm using it on both 50p & 60p I'm using the patch from page 4 of this topic should be all the way to the top first post. Not the second patch, by the way shooting @ 50p shows a higher I-Frame and image quality, so for now I'm sticking with 50p.

  • JayUKBJayUKB

    Thanks for the reply @TrackZillas.

    Looks like the 5 Sept patch

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @JayUKB Yeah that's the one. Right now I'm tweaking the lastest patch and bringing down the Bitrate a bit to make it more stable those High I-Frames are the highest I've seen to date.

  • apefosapefos

    @TrackZillas @JayUKB

    from now use the 09 september versions, they are the best.

    the super fast versions are experimental, to perceive if they can work on super fast cards. It seems these superfast versions are not reliable due to both of you report stop recording.

    so good thing is to keep using the tested ok versions which are from seta to sete in Boson and from setf to setj in workhorse (09 september).

    I updated the Super Fast post above about what is BF, BN, WF, WN, please take a look. It is not two times the quality, let me clarify: I consider each 8.000.000 increase in datarate = one step, so it is a improvement which can make image better but not two times better. but can make significant difference.

    TrackZillas, please say which versions are stop recording. the super fast versions are experimental, I do not have a super fast card to test them. Please do a try in Boson seta from 09 september on your 80 and 95 cards, they are ok in the JayUKB tests. some versions are improved to show more noise, some to show less, please say which version when doing the report. your reports are very useful.

    Yes, the PAL versions allows more datarate in 720p, great to see it can be stable in seta, as shown in JayUKB report:

    JayUKB report:

    720p (PAL/50) SH test...using the seta in "workhorse_boson_07_september_2014_ntsc_pal.zip", from a few days ago. Using the death/colour chart again, same Sandisk 64GB 280 card. The camera stopped after recording a 4GB file, so no spanning.

    StreamParser info.

    Stream: Mode: 720/50p Clip Duration: 0:06:53.100 TS Clock: 27MHz TS Duration: 0:06:53.242 Average PCR Timing Interval: 0.093 seconds TS Max Bitrate: 102,400,000 Average Overall Bitrate: 83,027,811 Average Video Bitrate: 82,114,013 Average Audio Bitrate: 240,007 Max GOP Size: 862,848 Bytes (6,902,784 bits) Video Frame Count (All-I/P/B): 20,655 - 6,885 / 13,769 / 0 Video Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max): 22,464 / 205,279 / 553,728 I Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max): 248,256 / 331,523 / 553,728 P Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max): 22,464 / 142,167 / 199,872 B Frame Size (Min/Ave/Max): 0 / 0 / 0

  • apefosapefos

    @TrackZillas @JayUKB

    feel free to do all the tweaking you want, this can be very useful, if you find something that can make the superfast to work, please post, because I do not own a super fast card to try.

    I think there is no need to use an older version, because the 09 september versions are ok

    just the super fast versions are experimental.

    Remember if you tweak the datarate in the super fast versions you need to update the top limits to same values (near the end of the ini file)

    compare the values you type because lower values than the seta in Boson and than setf in workhorse will not make sense, because the seta to sete in Boson and setf to setj in workhorse already have datarate decreasing in each version, so compare versions than you will see what is the datarate in each version

    this will help you to type a datarate that makes sense to try.

    a tip: if you get stop recording, try to type the same datarate in both 720p slots, same values in SH and in H, this helps to avoid stop recording. you can try this in the super fast versions, to type the same valeu of the SH in the H.

  • apefosapefos

    these BN super fast versions below is same datarate in all slots, setj is 100, seth is 104, seti is 112. if they does not work, so the way will be to avoid the super fast versions and keep using the 09 september versions, because the 09/09 versions already have 96Mbps and are reliable, so less than 100 will not improve significantly.

    bn_seth_seti.zip
    20K
    BN_setj.zip
    10K
  • apefosapefos

    I have a supposition, just a theory, to explain why the Pal version allows more datarate in 720p. the camera just need to handle 50 frames instead of 60, so the encoding calculations are less in each second, maybe this allows the camera hardware to handle a higher datarate in 720p pal. just a guess to explain.

    50fps allows a great slow motion, so maybe the way to get a higher quality is to use the camera in pal, this way cinema production will be 24p and 50p for slow.

    this avoids the need of using the super fast versions because the datarate in 720p50 will be more than enough for the best quality in the 09/09 reliable versions.

    the datarate in 720p50 is around 82Mbps and in 720p60 is around 70Mbps maximum. the tests from JayUKB shows that the camera is working to record 4GB in 720p50 with the reliable versions with a fast card.

    maybe the shutter 1/60 can avoid light flick in ntsc lands when using the 720p50 pal, needs tests.

    do tests to perceive if the noise quality in 720p50 are as good as in 720p60 in the SH for low light.

  • apefosapefos

    a tip to do analisys in streamparser: the average frames size are more important, because in the first second the frames are high but than the codec puts them in correct size. so the average size is what matters.

    comparing the average frames size:

    when the difference in size from I to B or from I to P are big, it is better for complex details

    when the difference in size from I to B or from I to P are small, it is better for filmic noise

    but in a high datarate, if the P or B are big enough you can get both things, the difference from I size is less important.

  • apefosapefos

    I will need to keep away for a while now, because I need to focus in some tasks which are delayed...

    keep up the great reports, it is very useful.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @apefos Your definitely right about that theory.. I'm gonna revert back to the 1x above BF Hack that's plenty Datarate for 720p 50fps footage & down the line we can tweak the 2x above until stable. Keep up the great work Apefos 720p is looking solid right now :)

  • frullacciafrullaccia

    I tried wnebula setd with a lexar card 400x (60Mb). No freezing using manual focus and stabilizer, or autofocus without stabilizer. It freezes when both, AF and OIS stabilization, are on.

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