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Sony A7s, FHD camera, with 12Mp sensor, big DR
  • 1100 Replies sorted by
  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @RatLabProductions Tell me why Den Lenis the one that did all the test Videos for the A7s said that the Dynamic Range on the A7s is equal to his Sony F5 DR. So that statement right there mean that it has a minimum of 14 Stops or Higher. Let's go back in history remember the Zacuto Shoot-outs the 5D2 had a whopping 11.3 Stops of DR in H.264 compress video and the camera itself is capable of 11.9 Stops that's only a .6 of a Stop. Now let's apply that knowledge to Sony's new consumer 50mbits compression & technology which is years years.. ahead of what the 5D Mark II was capable of and let's not forget the Slog2. From my calculations the A7s DR should be around 14.5 - 14.8 Stops of DR that's my prediction.

  • balazerbalazer

    Here's the S-log2 formula. Knock yourself out.

    https://github.com/ampas/aces-dev/blob/master/transforms/ctl/idt/vendorSupplied/sony/F65-F55/idt-SonyF65-F55-10i_Daylight.ctl

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @balazer All those lines of codes are like Matrix lines to me.. All I know it's that it's a totally different sensor than both of those cameras I'll leave it @ that and just wait until somebody capable test the DR when it out in the wild.

  • AusboyAusboy

    @Trackzillas, like you I am very excited about the cam but I don't think we'll see 15.3 stops in video unless we can get a Cinema DNG hack or Sony opens it up somehow. So the guys correcting you are possibly right. But I am with you bro! This cam kicks some serious behind whatever it ends up being. ( pssst. . . truth is we still don't know ).

    Whatever the dynamic range is in S-log2 I am convinced that it will mitigate most highlight retention complaints so common with us 'video snobs'. Man video and audio pros are so hard to please. I work in pro audio as well and folk are just plain finnicky about the tiniest details. The funny thing is that the end users rarely care whether you used a £50 000 fairchild compressor or a plugin! If you are a prosumer and are still looking for more in a camera before you dive in your expectations may need a bit of a rethink. You may need to wait another year or two to get your 10 bit or better RS performance. Or get a higher model of course. This camera is incredible whatever its rating in video. Our crappy old DSLRS and mirrorless cams give us about 8 or 9 stops if we are lucky. We just jumped to maybe about 14 and folks are acting like we need to calm down.WOW! Shout it from the rooftops man!!!! What's up with all this cynicism?This is a liberating tool. If it gives us even one stop lower than raw you realise that puts it in super high end territory as far as dynamic range goes?

    Lets not forget the best use for that super sensitive RAW at 15.3 stops of dynamic range is timelapse. And with an electronic shutter mode it does no damage to the mechanical shutter. There will be time lapses that make you want to get a 4k screen. I watched the Samsung UHDTV curved screen in a hifi shop on the weekend. I can see why 4k is special now. I have been sitting on the fence about 4k as I always felt true HD was great but nature, timelapse and sport looked just spectacular in 4k. And I mean amazing! However - all the trailers with CGI looked liked computer games though and I think dramas would have to be filmed well but man did it leave a lasting impression. But the timelapse stuff was insane - filmed with lesser cameras I might add.

    Once you see what the fuss is about, you get excited and creative juices start to flow - you start picturing certain types of shoots. Perhaps with a keylight behind the talent in a dark tunnel. Maybe lit by the moon, how about shooting a little after the golden hour - it becomes the golden four hours now LOL. One doesn't expect too much complaining or cynicism in the face of the technical achievements this camera brings. I think most of us here are artists not scientists or techs. There is always better and superior in this game and at the end of the day affordability rules the roost. I have waited for ten years for this camera so excuse my excitement. Like trackzillas, I am a singer and this camera will allow me to do my own shoots and if I shoot properly - will get broadcast ready results. It is the first broadcast ready camera I can afford. To me that is huge. In the past I was looking at twice the price for less performance. I have currently saved 1k of the price of entry. By July thousands of folk around the world will be shooting with one the most empowering cameras the world has ever seen for $2500. If you ask me - I think that is bonkers! Let no one dampen your enthusiasm bro.....this cam will deliver

  • fase56fase56

    Sure A7s is (will be) a fantastic camera, but I am not that excited with the extraordinary DR. I have no reason to doubt that it will have 15.3 stops of DR or even larger. It is possible. However I wander if that enormous DR will be really usable. With just 8 bits encoding we will have a meagre 17 levels from stop to stop (simple math 256(8 bits)/15.3=16.7). I can't understand why Sony didn't give us, at least, 10 bit encoding with such a camera beast. We would have 67 levels from stop to stop, much more usable. 17 levels is rather low and will probably end up in terrible banding. Although the extreme compression of Youtube video impedes to conclude anything with certainty, the banding is really obvious, despite the extreme low light sensitivity. Let's hope someone will hack the A7s firmware and give us 10 bit (or 12 bit better) encoding to exploit the spectacular capabilities of this little marvelous camera.

  • RatLabProductionsRatLabProductions

    @TrackZillas I believe (my interpretation) Den was giving his impression not scientific tested fact that the camera had the same DR as the F5. I could be wrong. Also which mode from the F5? The F5 is also not 8bit which matters jamming that much DR into a codec. Look at Slog 2 in the FS700 it looks terrible and ultra noisy with the internal codec.

    In the end we don't know which is why I really want to see more tests. The camera is under a month from release and we haven't seen anything other than extreme low light tests. I get it the camera shoots amazing low light but I want to see the image in not so extreme situations that most of us would shoot in regularly.

  • eyenortheyenorth

    I would in fact imagine banding to be much less of an issue with this camera in practical use than before with dslr's with lower DR. I have mostly experienced recurring banding issues when shooting with very flat profiles on Canon dslr's when trying to squeeze out as much highlight and shadow info as is possible given the limited DR of the sensors. Shooting with this camera with expanded latitude the DR issue wouldn't be such a pain, and would probably let me set up picture profiles that go more naturally to black and highlights than very flat ones and still retaining a gradable image that beats most of the older cameras as far as DR goes and the way it is recorded in 8 bit. So I tend to think a little bit opposite about this - the issue regarding banding in 8bit as far as I understand isn't so much how much DR the sensor picks up, but rather if your pushing that image information towards the middle aggressively in recording, or distributing the information more naturally across the 8 bit specter.

  • Teddy_DemTeddy_Dem

    This is completely unscientific, but if you watch the behind the scenes video from Den's "Arbroath Smokies" video you can make a somewhat visual comparison of the Sony A7s and a Sony F5 shooting in the same location and under similar conditions. The behind the scenes video was shot with a Sony F5 (according to Den's comment on the page) and the "Arbroath Smokies" video was shot with the A7s slog2 at 1080p internally. There are several scenes from the "Arbroath Smokies" video intercut in the behind the scenes video:

    Of course we are not sure how the images from both camera were post processed, so once again it is completely unscientific.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @HenryO You couldn't have said it better.. "If it gives us even one stop lower than raw you realise that puts it in super high end territory as far as dynamic range goes?" Don't worry I'm still excited about the camera Henry..

    @fase56 "Let's hope someone will hack the A7s firmware and give us 10 bit (or 12 bit better) encoding to exploit the spectacular capabilities of this little marvelous camera." Let's hope so.. if they do this camera will be in a different league.. better than super high end cams.

    @RatLabProductions Your definitely right it wasn't a scientific DR test between the two cams, but from someone who owns an F5 to come out and say that that's Huge.

  • RatLabProductionsRatLabProductions

    @TrackZillas

    I hope it does I really do and Den does great work. The skeptic in me wants to see footage by someone who wasn't hired by sony to make a promotional video. I don't think Den is going to say anything negative about the camera. I'm still probably going to be buying one as it checks a lot of boxes but the lack of much other than low light tests has me holding off on pre-ordering.

  • TrackZillasTrackZillas

    @RatLabProductions I understand where your coming from, and you made a really great point, but when somebody Like Den comes out in a video and specifically says for everybody to throw away, or to get rid of there 5D Mark III and get the A7s that says a lot about the camera. I know his getting paid by sony we also gotta know that his reputation is also on the line. Myself I'm not going to be preordering I'm gonna let it first get in the wild.. at the end of the day I'm optimistic about this camera.

  • last_SHIFTlast_SHIFT

    Maybe we should wait until Photokina and see what else is coming up.

  • philiplipetzphiliplipetz

    Den Leenie's A7s side by side with 5DmkIII in low light

  • philiplipetzphiliplipetz

    Sony A7S Video Demo (S-Log2 gamma) 20 seconds

  • philiplipetzphiliplipetz

    Sony A7S Video Demo (Gamma)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

  • Pedro_ESPedro_ES

  • Pedro_ESPedro_ES

  • apefosapefos

    To my eyes, the SLog2 dynamic range after grading will be almost the same thing of Standard profile with DRO level 5 and highlight recovery in post fom 110 IRE to 100 IRE. I perceived this seeing the shadows difference in this video fom standard to slog2 in th first take, so I believe slog2 will be no more than 11 or 12 fstops DR, but maybe I am wrong...:

  • Pedro_ESPedro_ES

    A review with some jpg samples to download:

    http://www.dcfever.com/news/readnews.php?id=10796

  • philiplipetzphiliplipetz

    Not sure how they got an Atomos 4K recorder, if they did. Also, perspective is same even though they are different size sensors. Very suspect.

  • balazerbalazer

    "Should be noted that the use of S-Log2 when shooting, the lowest ISO sensitivity of ISO 1600"

  • apefosapefos

    the pixel density in a7s compared to a6000 shows the a7s pixels area is 4.7 times larger. in cameralabs iso video tests the maximum quality iso with perfect denoise is 3200 for a6000 and 6400 gives good quality with small trembling in shadows after denoise. 3200 x 4.7 is will give us iso 16000 for great denoise in a7s. and the safe limit will be 6400 x 4.7 = 32000 iso maximum when the quality after denoise will show some trade off.

  • GreenidgeGreenidge

    The dynamic range on this camera is superb, amazing highlight recovery.

  • AusboyAusboy

    The grade at the end does this camera no favours LOL. Yum yum - yellow skin tones. I wish someone would place a 50 mm F 1.2 on this baby and let it truly shine at lower reasonable ISO values. I won't be surprised if most early vids just focus on this low light ability simply because they can.

    Oh and with him moving the camera around it seems rolling shutter is tolerable. Nothing to see here

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